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WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.815 --> 00:00:15.245 Super excited to have Kendall Haven here today. 2 00:00:15.585 --> 00:00:17.405 Um, right at the start of tell's toolkit, 3 00:00:17.615 --> 00:00:20.005 right at the beginning before I'd even started my training, 4 00:00:20.705 --> 00:00:23.525 um, I was recommended to read Kendall's book 5 00:00:23.745 --> 00:00:25.805 and this is my third copy actually, 6 00:00:25.965 --> 00:00:27.205 'cause I've given it out to so many people. 7 00:00:27.425 --> 00:00:29.125 And the first one was annotated very heavily. 8 00:00:29.425 --> 00:00:31.165 So I was kind of gutted not to get it back. 9 00:00:31.665 --> 00:00:33.925 Um, but I feel like you've been quite a big part 10 00:00:33.925 --> 00:00:35.565 of the tell's toolkit journey, to be honest, Kendall. 11 00:00:36.345 --> 00:00:39.525 Um, I think just to kind of message out to all the teachers, 12 00:00:39.555 --> 00:00:42.645 like we all know that story is a super powerful tool, 13 00:00:43.145 --> 00:00:46.365 but what Kendall does is he really digs into why this is 14 00:00:46.395 --> 00:00:48.285 what actually happens, what's impacted. 15 00:00:48.945 --> 00:00:52.045 And I think as teachers, we have a job to fight 16 00:00:52.105 --> 00:00:53.485 for the joy of story to remain. 17 00:00:53.945 --> 00:00:56.965 And Kendall can be a huge support to help us with this. 18 00:00:57.245 --> 00:00:59.085 'cause we all know how much our heads, like the research 19 00:00:59.085 --> 00:01:00.405 and the numbers that go behind it. 20 00:01:00.985 --> 00:01:03.605 Um, so Kendall is a master storyteller. 21 00:01:03.635 --> 00:01:06.285 He's performed for over 7 million people worldwide. 22 00:01:06.865 --> 00:01:09.725 Uh, founder of the field of story science. 23 00:01:10.305 --> 00:01:11.405 Um, he's led research 24 00:01:11.465 --> 00:01:13.405 for the National Storytelling Association. 25 00:01:13.985 --> 00:01:16.085 Uh, he's internationally recognized 26 00:01:16.225 --> 00:01:18.965 as an expert on the neuroscience and structure of story. 27 00:01:19.385 --> 00:01:22.485 And he's a distinguished visiting scholar at Stanford Uni 28 00:01:22.505 --> 00:01:24.285 and John Hopkins University. 29 00:01:24.905 --> 00:01:27.525 Um, and he's acted as a story advisor working 30 00:01:27.525 --> 00:01:29.325 with a whole range of companies 31 00:01:29.345 --> 00:01:32.805 and agencies, including names that we'll know, like nasa, 32 00:01:33.105 --> 00:01:37.365 the Navy Climate Protection Campaign, Boeing, um mm-hmm. 33 00:01:37.365 --> 00:01:41.645 He's worked with corporate schools, libraries, governments. 34 00:01:42.225 --> 00:01:44.925 So there's so many things that Kendall has done. 35 00:01:45.265 --> 00:01:48.365 Um, he's published 34 books on the Science and Newsom story. 36 00:01:48.365 --> 00:01:49.885 This is my particular favorite one. 37 00:01:50.425 --> 00:01:54.245 Um, and he's won, uh, 20 major awards for his writing 38 00:01:54.505 --> 00:01:55.925 and performance in storytelling. 39 00:01:56.345 --> 00:01:57.525 So, what can I say? 40 00:01:57.865 --> 00:02:00.725 Um, Kendall Haven, you are the king of story research. 41 00:02:01.145 --> 00:02:03.765 So I'm gonna hand over to you today, um, 42 00:02:04.165 --> 00:02:05.285 'cause I'm sure everybody wants to hear 43 00:02:05.285 --> 00:02:06.645 what you've got to say rather than me. 44 00:02:06.665 --> 00:02:07.925 But yeah. Welcome. Really, 45 00:02:07.925 --> 00:02:09.485 really excited to have you here today. 46 00:02:10.265 --> 00:02:13.885 Oh, thank you. And a joy to be here. Uh, yeah. 47 00:02:13.885 --> 00:02:18.485 And I, I have done research. Started the research in 1980. 48 00:02:19.315 --> 00:02:21.525 Well, I really started the research in 1984. 49 00:02:22.145 --> 00:02:25.485 Uh, took good long while ago, I had dropped out 50 00:02:25.625 --> 00:02:26.725 of the field. 51 00:02:26.905 --> 00:02:29.485 My degrees were in oceanography, 52 00:02:29.585 --> 00:02:32.965 and I had been working for one of the, uh, US National 53 00:02:34.245 --> 00:02:38.325 Research Science labs on, uh, the sort of the combination 54 00:02:38.325 --> 00:02:39.965 of energy and the ocean, 55 00:02:41.175 --> 00:02:43.195 and dropped out to become a storyteller. 56 00:02:43.505 --> 00:02:46.315 Okay. And of course, asked, started to ask the question, 57 00:02:46.335 --> 00:02:47.595 why do people listen to stories? 58 00:02:49.425 --> 00:02:52.805 Why do they bother to pay attention to stories? 59 00:02:53.745 --> 00:02:56.445 Uh, your attention is one of the most precious you have. 60 00:02:56.465 --> 00:02:58.325 Why do we bother so freely to pay to? 61 00:02:58.705 --> 00:03:01.925 So for the National Storytelling Association in the us 62 00:03:01.925 --> 00:03:04.685 and then the International Storytelling Center started doing 63 00:03:05.085 --> 00:03:08.845 research on why do people listen to stories. 64 00:03:08.905 --> 00:03:10.325 At the time, I wanted to know, 65 00:03:10.325 --> 00:03:12.565 because I was trying to make my living as a storyteller, 66 00:03:12.565 --> 00:03:13.885 and I needed to know why people would listen 67 00:03:13.885 --> 00:03:15.005 or wouldn't listen to my stories, 68 00:03:15.225 --> 00:03:17.245 so I'd have a better chance to get paid. 69 00:03:17.305 --> 00:03:18.685 Mm-hmm. Which is always nice when 70 00:03:18.685 --> 00:03:19.965 you're being a storyteller. 71 00:03:21.695 --> 00:03:24.585 What we'll do today, as a result of 40 years of research, 72 00:03:24.585 --> 00:03:27.465 including lots of live test audiences, 73 00:03:27.495 --> 00:03:32.465 incorporating research from now, 19 different related fields 74 00:03:32.485 --> 00:03:34.065 of science, uh, 75 00:03:34.125 --> 00:03:38.305 and then, um, the number of years of testing in FMRI 76 00:03:38.365 --> 00:03:41.145 and EEG labs where I would wire up audiences 77 00:03:41.205 --> 00:03:44.545 and literally watch their brains on story. 78 00:03:45.205 --> 00:03:49.665 And what I wanna show you really is not 79 00:03:50.325 --> 00:03:53.305 why story, why we should hold onto stories, 80 00:03:53.765 --> 00:03:54.785 why we should tell stories. 81 00:03:55.135 --> 00:03:58.705 What I really want to show you is that the human brain, I 82 00:04:00.405 --> 00:04:04.705 is hardwired, physically hardwired to make sense 83 00:04:04.705 --> 00:04:05.825 of the world in story terms. 84 00:04:06.005 --> 00:04:09.945 Mm-hmm. We, we we're, you know, the, 85 00:04:10.325 --> 00:04:12.105 we really are homo narratives. 86 00:04:12.485 --> 00:04:16.425 Mm-hmm. Story animals. We make sense of the world in story. 87 00:04:17.365 --> 00:04:20.145 We do it automatically every one of the, 88 00:04:20.165 --> 00:04:21.465 the students that you work with. 89 00:04:21.685 --> 00:04:23.945 Mm-hmm. And it has been tested, not by me, 90 00:04:23.965 --> 00:04:27.585 but by others in, in infants as lung, as young 91 00:04:27.585 --> 00:04:28.625 as six, eight months old. 92 00:04:29.205 --> 00:04:32.745 And they can show eye movement, facial expressions 93 00:04:32.745 --> 00:04:37.585 that they're responding to those same exact story terms that 94 00:04:38.885 --> 00:04:41.385 hu uh, that adults do that, that we all do. 95 00:04:42.165 --> 00:04:46.505 The problem is, it's like so many things that you do, 96 00:04:48.085 --> 00:04:49.745 you don't do it consciously. 97 00:04:49.965 --> 00:04:53.745 You do your story work at a subconscious automatic level. 98 00:04:54.325 --> 00:04:56.545 Um, but we do that with most things. 99 00:04:57.335 --> 00:05:00.585 Your conscious brain, your conscious mind is the slowest 100 00:05:00.585 --> 00:05:01.665 processor in your head. 101 00:05:02.165 --> 00:05:03.625 You have a number of other processors 102 00:05:03.625 --> 00:05:05.225 that are all thousands of times faster. 103 00:05:05.485 --> 00:05:07.185 And so anything that really is important to you, 104 00:05:07.185 --> 00:05:11.345 like having a heartbeat, uh, breathing you, you don't stop 105 00:05:11.345 --> 00:05:12.985 and conscious and put it in your conscious mind 106 00:05:12.985 --> 00:05:15.305 and say, should I grab my heart and beat again? 107 00:05:15.605 --> 00:05:17.265 No, you, you, you put it in another process 108 00:05:17.375 --> 00:05:19.265 that they can take care of it much more efficiently. 109 00:05:20.105 --> 00:05:23.145 I mean, other examples, tying shoe laces. 110 00:05:23.365 --> 00:05:24.745 You all know how to tie shoe laces. 111 00:05:25.485 --> 00:05:28.025 Uh, maybe you go to more exciting parties than I do, 112 00:05:28.025 --> 00:05:30.865 but it's a party game that we wind up playing a lot, 113 00:05:30.865 --> 00:05:32.705 where you give people a piece of paper 114 00:05:32.805 --> 00:05:36.145 and say, write down in temporal sequential order exactly 115 00:05:36.175 --> 00:05:37.225 what you do with each thumb 116 00:05:37.225 --> 00:05:38.945 and finger when you write, tie shoe laces, 117 00:05:39.335 --> 00:05:41.465 have people write it down, then pass their instructions 118 00:05:41.465 --> 00:05:43.385 to someone else who much follow those instructions. 119 00:05:43.415 --> 00:05:44.585 Literally. And Exactly. 120 00:05:44.725 --> 00:05:48.065 And no one ever gets shoe shot, shoe laces tied. Mm-hmm. 121 00:05:48.245 --> 00:05:50.145 We all know how to do it, but you don't know 122 00:05:50.145 --> 00:05:51.225 how to do it consciously. 123 00:05:51.225 --> 00:05:52.425 It's the same with stories. 124 00:05:53.245 --> 00:05:56.625 The idea of education, it seems to me, should be 125 00:05:57.225 --> 00:06:00.605 at a most fundamental level to expose 126 00:06:01.425 --> 00:06:03.365 at a conscious level, those students, 127 00:06:03.705 --> 00:06:06.325 to those subconscious automatic story elements 128 00:06:06.325 --> 00:06:09.325 that they use automatically all the time as the basis 129 00:06:09.425 --> 00:06:11.525 for all of their learning, all of their experience. 130 00:06:11.985 --> 00:06:15.365 And then they become conscious masters of those elements. 131 00:06:15.545 --> 00:06:17.525 And it makes a world of difference. 132 00:06:17.665 --> 00:06:19.885 So what I wanted to do was zip through, 133 00:06:19.985 --> 00:06:22.045 and today I'm gonna use some slides. 134 00:06:22.465 --> 00:06:25.205 Mm-hmm. Show those, those to you. 135 00:06:25.265 --> 00:06:27.245 And, and, and then wind up with a couple of games 136 00:06:27.515 --> 00:06:31.165 that you can play with your students that are amazingly fun 137 00:06:31.425 --> 00:06:32.925 and amazingly productive. 138 00:06:33.085 --> 00:06:35.565 I, this is a great way to, by the way, if you know, 139 00:06:35.565 --> 00:06:38.765 if you want on the side start writing, um, you know, 140 00:06:38.855 --> 00:06:42.045 short picture book stories, uh, have your students help you 141 00:06:42.045 --> 00:06:43.245 with the stories, build up the stories, 142 00:06:43.245 --> 00:06:44.485 and then say, oh, that was a good one. 143 00:06:44.585 --> 00:06:46.565 And you can take it and actually write it down and, 144 00:06:46.625 --> 00:06:47.965 and work on the details some. 145 00:06:47.965 --> 00:06:49.725 And, uh, and you'll have a constant 146 00:06:49.725 --> 00:06:51.085 supply of stories for yourself. 147 00:06:51.505 --> 00:06:55.285 Anyway, let's go ahead and get started on that. 148 00:06:55.425 --> 00:06:58.245 And I will do the little things that I gotta do 149 00:06:58.265 --> 00:06:59.965 to Yeah, yeah. 150 00:06:59.965 --> 00:07:03.405 Sounds good there. Alright. Now, so that's our topic. 151 00:07:03.785 --> 00:07:06.205 Um, really your students' brains on story. 152 00:07:07.025 --> 00:07:08.205 That's what we wanna look at. 153 00:07:09.845 --> 00:07:13.875 Uh, the key question, and there are two of them, and, 154 00:07:13.895 --> 00:07:16.875 and they have to do with the functioning of the brain. 155 00:07:16.935 --> 00:07:19.595 How does the brain make sense out of incoming information? 156 00:07:20.225 --> 00:07:21.885 And how do we create meaning from it? 157 00:07:22.875 --> 00:07:24.805 What the, a lot of the focus 158 00:07:24.825 --> 00:07:28.365 of my research the last 25 years has been to show that 159 00:07:28.985 --> 00:07:30.445 we do that in story terms. 160 00:07:31.065 --> 00:07:35.205 We do that using story elements, which means 161 00:07:35.205 --> 00:07:36.805 that teaching those elements 162 00:07:36.805 --> 00:07:38.805 and exposing students to those elements, 163 00:07:39.575 --> 00:07:40.965 which are all story elements. 164 00:07:40.965 --> 00:07:43.005 And the best way to do it is through working 165 00:07:43.005 --> 00:07:46.975 with them on stories is the fundamental basis 166 00:07:47.155 --> 00:07:48.655 for all of their learning. 167 00:07:49.475 --> 00:07:52.865 So, uh, having said that, uh, 168 00:07:53.045 --> 00:07:54.905 and this, I'm not gonna go very far on this. 169 00:07:54.925 --> 00:07:57.745 In, into the science, there is a neural story net. 170 00:07:57.765 --> 00:08:01.385 It is a physical bundle, uh, of, of 171 00:08:02.045 --> 00:08:03.145 little small organ 172 00:08:03.405 --> 00:08:05.825 or organelles, uh, small clusters 173 00:08:05.825 --> 00:08:09.385 of cells in the lower back part of the brain that are part 174 00:08:09.505 --> 00:08:11.425 of the initial processing of information. 175 00:08:12.255 --> 00:08:15.065 Information doesn't go straight from your conscious from a 176 00:08:15.065 --> 00:08:17.265 century organiz or ears into your conscious mind. 177 00:08:18.595 --> 00:08:20.975 It goes to an, uh, the lower back part of the brain 178 00:08:20.975 --> 00:08:23.335 where there's a, an amazing amount of processing 179 00:08:23.335 --> 00:08:27.295 that happens, part of which is to try to figure out how 180 00:08:27.295 --> 00:08:29.015 to interpret this information. 181 00:08:29.435 --> 00:08:32.095 And that's all done in story terms in this neural story net. 182 00:08:32.095 --> 00:08:34.535 We can see it light up in E-E-G-F-M-R-I labs. 183 00:08:35.435 --> 00:08:38.415 Uh, so what happens is 184 00:08:38.805 --> 00:08:41.735 that we turn information into story form 185 00:08:42.435 --> 00:08:46.065 before it gets to the conscious mind, not 186 00:08:46.075 --> 00:08:48.505 after it doesn't get to the conscious mind. 187 00:08:48.505 --> 00:08:50.945 And then you create story, you create it in story form, 188 00:08:50.945 --> 00:08:52.185 you interpret it in story form, 189 00:08:52.245 --> 00:08:54.385 and that's what first gets to your conscious mind. 190 00:08:54.765 --> 00:08:58.475 So, so that what first reaches the conscious mind 191 00:08:59.495 --> 00:09:02.085 isn't what reached your sense of organs, eyes, or ears. 192 00:09:02.935 --> 00:09:04.945 Even, even if you're reading literally 193 00:09:04.945 --> 00:09:05.985 and you're looking at the page 194 00:09:06.245 --> 00:09:07.625 or gets to your conscious mind 195 00:09:07.645 --> 00:09:10.025 as your self-created storied version of that material 196 00:09:11.035 --> 00:09:13.845 created in order to make it make sense 197 00:09:14.065 --> 00:09:16.405 to you using these story terms, 198 00:09:16.865 --> 00:09:18.445 the more consciously you're aware of them, 199 00:09:19.065 --> 00:09:21.125 the more effectively you can learn 200 00:09:21.125 --> 00:09:22.885 and be aware of the world around you. 201 00:09:23.465 --> 00:09:26.205 Uh, um, so I wanna show you real quickly, 202 00:09:26.435 --> 00:09:29.925 this in action little game to, to play, uh, personable. 203 00:09:29.925 --> 00:09:31.985 One says, where's John? 204 00:09:32.445 --> 00:09:37.295 Person number two says, well, I didn't wanna say anything, 205 00:09:38.425 --> 00:09:41.725 but I saw a green VW parked in front of Carol's. 206 00:09:42.215 --> 00:09:44.245 Again, person number one, where's John? Person number two? 207 00:09:44.245 --> 00:09:45.285 Well, I didn't wanna say anything, 208 00:09:45.285 --> 00:09:47.725 but I saw a green VW parked in front of Carol's. 209 00:09:48.225 --> 00:09:50.205 If you heard that conversation, you didn't know how 210 00:09:50.205 --> 00:09:51.365 to make perfect sense out of it. 211 00:09:51.365 --> 00:09:53.165 Right? And you didn't know how to interpret it. 212 00:09:53.165 --> 00:09:54.605 We'll come back to it in just a moment, 213 00:09:54.665 --> 00:09:57.445 but I wanna go on question is, did anyone say, eh, 214 00:09:58.045 --> 00:09:59.605 i I can't make sense outta that. 215 00:09:59.635 --> 00:10:01.245 There's no connection between those two. 216 00:10:01.785 --> 00:10:04.725 And the answer is never, 217 00:10:04.825 --> 00:10:06.445 no one ever says that when I do it live. 218 00:10:06.705 --> 00:10:09.085 Mm-hmm. One more demonstration of this 219 00:10:09.085 --> 00:10:10.365 before we go back to that one. 220 00:10:11.225 --> 00:10:13.085 We always assume that connection. 221 00:10:13.705 --> 00:10:15.165 We assume that it makes sense. 222 00:10:15.385 --> 00:10:17.205 We have this make sense mandate. 223 00:10:18.105 --> 00:10:19.845 We assume that things are gonna make sense 224 00:10:19.985 --> 00:10:23.205 and force them to make sense using story structures. 225 00:10:23.465 --> 00:10:25.685 That's how we make sense of the world in story terms. 226 00:10:26.785 --> 00:10:31.145 Uh, one more demo, picture yourself at some event, um, 227 00:10:31.545 --> 00:10:34.225 I dunno, conference a, a a, a big party, 228 00:10:34.505 --> 00:10:36.025 a social event somewhere. 229 00:10:36.285 --> 00:10:37.745 And you overhear this conversation. 230 00:10:37.965 --> 00:10:39.265 You don't know who the two people are. 231 00:10:39.265 --> 00:10:40.505 You just overhear the conversation. 232 00:10:40.505 --> 00:10:41.945 Person number one says, hi, John. 233 00:10:42.125 --> 00:10:45.785 Person me two says, I'm not here. You never saw me. 234 00:10:46.285 --> 00:10:48.945 I'm not here. Person number one, chuckles. 235 00:10:49.025 --> 00:10:51.185 And says, oh, it's okay. Carol's gone home. 236 00:10:52.575 --> 00:10:57.155 Now, if you heard that make perfect sense to you, 237 00:10:57.155 --> 00:11:00.895 you would assume person number two is in fact, John. 238 00:11:00.915 --> 00:11:03.895 And what John is saying is keep it quiet. 239 00:11:04.245 --> 00:11:06.655 There's certain people I don't want to bump into today. 240 00:11:07.275 --> 00:11:09.815 And person number one understands the situation, 241 00:11:09.815 --> 00:11:10.975 says, oh, Carol's gone home. 242 00:11:10.975 --> 00:11:12.735 You're safe. You don't have to, you don't have 243 00:11:12.735 --> 00:11:15.445 to hide, right? 244 00:11:15.665 --> 00:11:17.445 Mm-hmm. Everyone interprets it that way. 245 00:11:17.945 --> 00:11:19.965 That's not what it says. 246 00:11:20.265 --> 00:11:23.645 To make it make sense to you without any conscious 247 00:11:23.645 --> 00:11:24.725 thought or reservation. 248 00:11:24.905 --> 00:11:28.605 You completely reversed the factual statements. 249 00:11:28.755 --> 00:11:30.645 That person number two made you reversed. 250 00:11:30.695 --> 00:11:34.635 Every one of them did it in a heartbeat, 251 00:11:34.855 --> 00:11:36.075 did it without conscious thought. 252 00:11:36.215 --> 00:11:37.955 Why? Because this makes sense. 253 00:11:37.955 --> 00:11:40.595 Mandate forced you to make it make sense. 254 00:11:40.695 --> 00:11:44.595 And that overrides literally accepting the information 255 00:11:44.595 --> 00:11:46.555 that you get from the source material. 256 00:11:47.935 --> 00:11:50.035 Person number one is saying, shh, I'm not here. 257 00:11:50.035 --> 00:11:52.675 Maybe they've figured out how to project an avatar. 258 00:11:52.915 --> 00:11:56.485 I don't know. Um, maybe person number two, me. 259 00:11:56.485 --> 00:11:57.685 Person number one is hallucinating. 260 00:11:57.685 --> 00:11:59.085 And person number two is just on the 261 00:11:59.085 --> 00:12:00.125 phone and really isn't there? 262 00:12:01.045 --> 00:12:05.725 I don't know. But the fact is, no one ever stops to consider 263 00:12:05.755 --> 00:12:08.725 that what person number two is saying is possible 264 00:12:09.145 --> 00:12:10.245 and factually correct. 265 00:12:10.275 --> 00:12:12.485 Even though it's what they're making those statements. 266 00:12:13.465 --> 00:12:15.285 It happens all the time. 267 00:12:15.475 --> 00:12:17.685 Automatically, subconsciously, 268 00:12:18.135 --> 00:12:21.445 every time a human being perceives information through one 269 00:12:21.445 --> 00:12:22.885 of their sensory organ eyes or ears. 270 00:12:23.465 --> 00:12:24.725 Uh, back to the first one, real, 271 00:12:24.865 --> 00:12:26.125 the first demo real quickly. 272 00:12:29.245 --> 00:12:32.305 Uh, here we are. The fact is, there really is no connection. 273 00:12:33.035 --> 00:12:36.095 Person number one is asking about a person. John. 274 00:12:36.235 --> 00:12:38.055 Person number two is talking about a car. 275 00:12:38.665 --> 00:12:42.175 There is no connection between them until you force one. 276 00:12:43.615 --> 00:12:45.635 That's this make sense, mandate in action. 277 00:12:46.095 --> 00:12:49.715 It is completely driven and controlled by story terms. 278 00:12:50.215 --> 00:12:53.635 So those elements then are worth taking some time 279 00:12:53.855 --> 00:12:56.275 to look at, let's now go back forward. 280 00:12:56.615 --> 00:12:58.075 So the question is, what is the story? 281 00:12:58.075 --> 00:13:00.515 What makes the story a story? Right? 282 00:13:02.145 --> 00:13:03.455 Again, this is from the research. 283 00:13:03.455 --> 00:13:07.095 This is, this is, we're able to ferret this out both from, 284 00:13:07.555 --> 00:13:11.935 uh, oh, uh, you know, about 3000 sources of 285 00:13:12.535 --> 00:13:14.055 research material that I've put together. 286 00:13:14.155 --> 00:13:16.175 And then would go into the labs to test it 287 00:13:16.395 --> 00:13:17.695 and watch audiences 288 00:13:17.955 --> 00:13:20.095 and be able to isolate certain information 289 00:13:20.095 --> 00:13:21.415 and see how they responded to it. 290 00:13:22.075 --> 00:13:24.815 We find eight elements, eight informational elements 291 00:13:24.815 --> 00:13:28.535 that really drive all of our understanding. 292 00:13:28.925 --> 00:13:31.295 They are all the core elements of 293 00:13:31.525 --> 00:13:33.575 what we would normally call effective story structure. 294 00:13:34.555 --> 00:13:36.855 So let's start with a sentence. He went to the store. 295 00:13:38.625 --> 00:13:42.385 Good story. Willing to accept that story. 296 00:13:43.005 --> 00:13:45.025 Uh, and of course the answer is, well, no, 297 00:13:45.175 --> 00:13:46.905 it's not a really good story. 298 00:13:47.805 --> 00:13:50.905 And most people then say, oh, whoa, I've got some kids who 299 00:13:50.905 --> 00:13:52.385 that's about what they would come up with. 300 00:13:52.605 --> 00:13:54.065 Mm-hmm. That's 301 00:13:54.065 --> 00:13:56.585 because in their minds, they come up with a full story. 302 00:13:57.205 --> 00:13:59.265 Uh, and once they've seen the story in their minds, 303 00:13:59.485 --> 00:14:04.465 they'd let a very limited vocabulary and, and a 304 00:14:04.465 --> 00:14:06.065 and a limited verbiage of the story 305 00:14:06.825 --> 00:14:08.145 represent the whole story in their mind. 306 00:14:08.545 --> 00:14:12.385 Although if they said he went to the store verbally, 307 00:14:12.725 --> 00:14:15.265 in their minds, they would, I'm sure I guarantee it 308 00:14:15.625 --> 00:14:17.305 'cause I've tested it, see a whole lot more. 309 00:14:17.605 --> 00:14:20.545 But let's say, what do you want to know in order to turn 310 00:14:20.545 --> 00:14:21.785 that into a good story? 311 00:14:22.705 --> 00:14:27.085 The two most common questions that come up, uh, 312 00:14:27.185 --> 00:14:28.325 are first who's he. 313 00:14:28.505 --> 00:14:29.885 Mm-hmm. Although 314 00:14:29.885 --> 00:14:31.565 that's not usually the first one that comes up. 315 00:14:31.865 --> 00:14:34.125 The first one that that comes up most prevalently 316 00:14:34.145 --> 00:14:35.365 is why do you go to the store? 317 00:14:35.585 --> 00:14:40.305 What's he after? Um, so let's set the he who's he aside, 318 00:14:40.305 --> 00:14:43.105 because at least we have a, a placeholder for character. 319 00:14:43.165 --> 00:14:44.305 So what you're asking is, who 320 00:14:44.305 --> 00:14:45.385 are the characters in this story? 321 00:14:45.565 --> 00:14:47.665 We have a placeholder for that. The pronoun. 322 00:14:47.725 --> 00:14:50.905 He, let's go to the other one and we'll start there. 323 00:14:51.425 --> 00:14:52.925 Why do you go to the store? What you're looking 324 00:14:52.985 --> 00:14:55.065 for is a goal. 325 00:14:55.255 --> 00:14:56.425 Here are those eight elements. 326 00:14:57.175 --> 00:14:59.355 The first couple are gonna refer, relate to the character. 327 00:14:59.405 --> 00:15:03.905 We'll come back to those at the end. Goal. Goal. 328 00:15:04.295 --> 00:15:07.585 What is a goal? A goal is simply what a character is 329 00:15:08.235 --> 00:15:11.225 after what they technically what they need 330 00:15:11.225 --> 00:15:12.665 or want to do or get in the story. 331 00:15:12.665 --> 00:15:14.985 It's not what they do, it's not what they accomplish. 332 00:15:15.165 --> 00:15:17.865 Mm-hmm. It's what they're after. That's a goal. 333 00:15:18.265 --> 00:15:21.625 A goal needs to be something tangible and physical. 334 00:15:22.135 --> 00:15:23.945 Happiness is a terrible story goal. 335 00:15:24.025 --> 00:15:25.625 'cause no one knows what it looks like. Mm-hmm. 336 00:15:26.325 --> 00:15:29.225 We want our goals to be something concrete. 337 00:15:30.215 --> 00:15:34.835 Um, a quick example on goal, how powerful it is 338 00:15:35.295 --> 00:15:36.475 and how essential it is. 339 00:15:36.715 --> 00:15:38.395 Although we consciously don't think about it a lot. 340 00:15:38.395 --> 00:15:41.475 Here's a paragraph. Um, I mean, take time. You can read it. 341 00:15:41.475 --> 00:15:43.115 I'll read it quickly out loud. Sally. 342 00:15:43.215 --> 00:15:44.395 Let loose a team of goers. 343 00:15:44.695 --> 00:15:46.915 The plan backfired when a dog chased them away. 344 00:15:46.995 --> 00:15:48.555 She then threw a party, but her guest failed 345 00:15:48.555 --> 00:15:49.795 to bring their motorcycles. 346 00:15:50.145 --> 00:15:52.995 Furthermore, her stereo system wasn't nearly loud enough. 347 00:15:53.315 --> 00:15:55.315 Sally spent the next day looking for a peeping tom, 348 00:15:55.455 --> 00:15:57.475 but was unable to find one in the yellow pages. 349 00:15:57.615 --> 00:15:59.715 Mostly. We don't have yellow pages anymore. 350 00:15:59.815 --> 00:16:03.275 The classified part of the phone books, obscene phone calls, 351 00:16:03.345 --> 00:16:05.195 gave her some hope until the number was changed. 352 00:16:05.195 --> 00:16:07.835 It was the insulation of a blinking neon light across the 353 00:16:07.835 --> 00:16:08.995 street that finally did the trick. 354 00:16:09.475 --> 00:16:12.155 Sally framed the ad for that light 355 00:16:12.155 --> 00:16:14.275 that she found in the classified section of the newspaper, 356 00:16:14.275 --> 00:16:15.635 and now has it hanging on her wall. 357 00:16:16.285 --> 00:16:20.105 Does it make sense? No. Do you know what this is? Action. 358 00:16:20.895 --> 00:16:23.895 Its a plot. It's just plot. 359 00:16:25.435 --> 00:16:28.435 Children often want to do as they develop stories, 360 00:16:28.805 --> 00:16:30.955 think this happened and then that happened, 361 00:16:31.055 --> 00:16:32.075 and then that happened. 362 00:16:32.075 --> 00:16:33.155 And the stories go nowhere. 363 00:16:33.865 --> 00:16:35.715 Stories are not about what happens. 364 00:16:35.945 --> 00:16:39.195 They're about the characters to whom they happen. 365 00:16:39.295 --> 00:16:42.715 And some very specific character information, most first 366 00:16:42.715 --> 00:16:44.155 and foremost of which is goal. 367 00:16:44.455 --> 00:16:48.265 So let's create a goal for, you know, 368 00:16:48.485 --> 00:16:49.705 um, for Sally. 369 00:16:50.005 --> 00:16:52.545 Mm-hmm. Sally hates the woman who moved in next door 370 00:16:52.725 --> 00:16:54.785 and wants to drive her out. 371 00:16:56.295 --> 00:16:59.455 Reread the paragraph and you'll find it now. 372 00:16:59.455 --> 00:17:01.935 Makes perfect sense. You may disagree with her tactics. 373 00:17:02.035 --> 00:17:05.455 Mm-hmm. But it makes perfect sense. Why? 374 00:17:05.455 --> 00:17:07.175 Because stories are about characters 375 00:17:07.545 --> 00:17:09.175 struggling to achieve goals. 376 00:17:09.635 --> 00:17:11.655 Mm-hmm. Those are all story. 377 00:17:11.655 --> 00:17:16.175 Those, those are story terms that we inherently have, um, 378 00:17:16.385 --> 00:17:17.455 built into our brains. 379 00:17:17.795 --> 00:17:21.695 All right? So we needed a goal 380 00:17:21.795 --> 00:17:23.015 for, he went to the store. 381 00:17:23.395 --> 00:17:27.635 He went to the store for some milk. He got some the end. 382 00:17:29.205 --> 00:17:30.665 Not a very exciting story yet 383 00:17:31.255 --> 00:17:35.145 because stories are what happened on the way 384 00:17:35.245 --> 00:17:36.705 to achieving a goal. 385 00:17:38.915 --> 00:17:41.525 It's not the goal itself, it's what happens en route 386 00:17:41.705 --> 00:17:42.965 to getting to the goal. 387 00:17:43.705 --> 00:17:47.485 So what that imply, what that means is that there have 388 00:17:47.485 --> 00:17:49.245 to be something initially 389 00:17:49.325 --> 00:17:52.565 that keeps him from getting to the milk. 390 00:17:53.625 --> 00:17:55.315 Well, there are two things, conflicts and problems. 391 00:17:55.875 --> 00:17:57.515 A a a quick definition here 392 00:17:57.515 --> 00:18:01.395 because it's worth, um, being real crystal clear on these. 393 00:18:02.195 --> 00:18:05.075 Anything that blocks a character from even temporarily 394 00:18:05.435 --> 00:18:06.715 reaching a goal is a problem. 395 00:18:07.135 --> 00:18:09.155 So if he had to walk two blocks to get 396 00:18:09.155 --> 00:18:10.915 to the store, that's a problem. 397 00:18:11.775 --> 00:18:13.115 Uh, if he had to cross the street 398 00:18:13.115 --> 00:18:14.715 and there was a lot of traffic, that's 399 00:18:14.715 --> 00:18:15.995 technically a problem. 400 00:18:16.735 --> 00:18:21.035 Um, you know, if there, I don't know, 401 00:18:21.585 --> 00:18:23.275 with the wars going on in the world right now, 402 00:18:23.485 --> 00:18:26.435 let's put it in in Ukraine and, and you know, and, 403 00:18:26.575 --> 00:18:30.475 and he had, he would have to cross half a mile 404 00:18:30.695 --> 00:18:32.035 of a war zone where 405 00:18:32.605 --> 00:18:34.675 bombs are going off all the time to get to the milk. 406 00:18:34.675 --> 00:18:37.085 That's a problem. Anything 407 00:18:37.085 --> 00:18:38.365 that blocks a character is a problem. 408 00:18:39.005 --> 00:18:40.965 A conflict is a subset of problems. 409 00:18:41.045 --> 00:18:42.085 A conflict is a problem 410 00:18:42.275 --> 00:18:44.605 that puts our character in direct opposition 411 00:18:44.605 --> 00:18:46.085 to some other entity in the story. 412 00:18:47.975 --> 00:18:50.625 Generally speaking, we like conflicts better 413 00:18:50.625 --> 00:18:53.345 because of what they create for the character 414 00:18:53.345 --> 00:18:54.425 that we'll get to in a minute. 415 00:18:55.845 --> 00:18:57.865 But it's always a combination. 416 00:18:58.335 --> 00:18:59.625 Some combination of problems 417 00:18:59.965 --> 00:19:04.705 and conflicts that have to be present in the story in order 418 00:19:04.725 --> 00:19:07.545 for there to be, to have it make sense. 419 00:19:09.315 --> 00:19:11.095 So let's create a problem. 420 00:19:11.795 --> 00:19:12.975 We went at the surface of milk, 421 00:19:13.435 --> 00:19:16.455 but a golden butterfly hurted on the door, 422 00:19:16.455 --> 00:19:17.935 handle twitched it, wings and hissed. 423 00:19:17.935 --> 00:19:21.415 You can't come in. That's a conflict. Mm-hmm. Right? 424 00:19:21.995 --> 00:19:25.935 So he brushed the butterfly aside, walked in, got his milk, 425 00:19:25.965 --> 00:19:29.055 went home, the end, not very satisfying. 426 00:19:29.195 --> 00:19:31.215 Mm-hmm. 'cause it's not the conflicts 427 00:19:31.215 --> 00:19:32.935 and problems we really care about. 428 00:19:33.485 --> 00:19:36.895 They are agents that create something else. 429 00:19:37.565 --> 00:19:38.815 Risk and danger. 430 00:19:39.665 --> 00:19:43.095 These are two that get misinterpreted 431 00:19:43.255 --> 00:19:45.535 and misused consciously a lot. 432 00:19:45.835 --> 00:19:47.175 Two essential elements, 433 00:19:48.255 --> 00:19:52.865 but they are two independent variables. 434 00:19:53.535 --> 00:19:55.225 Risk and danger. What is risk? 435 00:19:55.775 --> 00:19:58.385 Risk is just the likelihood that something's gonna go wrong. 436 00:19:58.645 --> 00:20:02.025 Mm-hmm. Risk isn't a measure of what it is 437 00:20:02.025 --> 00:20:04.345 that's gonna go wrong, just how likely is it. 438 00:20:05.165 --> 00:20:07.105 Danger is what happens 439 00:20:07.405 --> 00:20:09.625 to a character if something goes wrong. 440 00:20:09.845 --> 00:20:10.905 Mm-hmm. Okay. 441 00:20:11.765 --> 00:20:16.515 Uh, quick example, step off the curb in a busy street. 442 00:20:17.095 --> 00:20:19.795 And the, well, the greatest danger is that, that, uh, 443 00:20:19.815 --> 00:20:22.635 you know, a big delivery truck is gonna come roaring through 444 00:20:23.175 --> 00:20:24.875 and you will be flattened and kill. 445 00:20:25.295 --> 00:20:26.355 Mm-hmm. That's danger. 446 00:20:27.145 --> 00:20:28.995 Risk is a measure of how likely it is. 447 00:20:30.015 --> 00:20:32.395 If you stop and look both ways and there are no cars coming, 448 00:20:32.655 --> 00:20:34.075 and you quickly step out of the street 449 00:20:34.535 --> 00:20:37.465 and then step back on the curb, danger didn't change. 450 00:20:38.455 --> 00:20:41.385 It's still that you'll get flattened by a big, uh, you know, 451 00:20:41.465 --> 00:20:45.665 a, a a huge delivery truck and you'll be killed. 452 00:20:46.445 --> 00:20:49.145 But the risk is virtually zero because you look both ways 453 00:20:49.145 --> 00:20:50.745 and there weren't any cars or trucks coming. 454 00:20:52.615 --> 00:20:56.835 Excitement is literally measured as the product 455 00:20:56.895 --> 00:20:58.115 of risk times danger. 456 00:21:00.175 --> 00:21:02.195 But you can increase either of those. 457 00:21:03.285 --> 00:21:05.835 Wanna make it more, wanna increase risk, fine. 458 00:21:06.495 --> 00:21:07.795 Put a blindfold on some of them. 459 00:21:07.795 --> 00:21:11.195 Have them cross a, a, a busy eight lane street, um, 460 00:21:13.845 --> 00:21:16.495 with the blindfold on and risk goes way up. 461 00:21:16.495 --> 00:21:19.895 Danger hasn't changed. Want to change danger? Fine. 462 00:21:20.275 --> 00:21:22.695 Put the blindfold on them, have 'em cross the street. 463 00:21:22.695 --> 00:21:26.215 But it's really just a street that is reserved for, um, 464 00:21:26.345 --> 00:21:27.895 young children on tricycles. 465 00:21:28.915 --> 00:21:30.915 And they may get hit, um, 466 00:21:31.055 --> 00:21:32.435 but it's just gonna be with a tricycle. 467 00:21:32.465 --> 00:21:35.155 It's not gonna hurt very much. So danger's gone way down. 468 00:21:36.135 --> 00:21:37.395 The risk hasn't changed. 469 00:21:37.655 --> 00:21:40.595 You see the difference between the two, they are independent 470 00:21:40.695 --> 00:21:43.315 and they are amazingly powerful tools 471 00:21:43.615 --> 00:21:46.515 for controlling excitement and that, 472 00:21:46.695 --> 00:21:48.675 and in controlling tension in the story. 473 00:21:49.815 --> 00:21:54.235 And as they say, as goes tension. So goes attention. 474 00:21:55.015 --> 00:21:58.595 So these are your moment to moment tools for controlling 475 00:21:59.635 --> 00:22:01.515 audience, attention, risk, and danger. 476 00:22:02.255 --> 00:22:06.415 Uh, the truth is that problems and complex risk 477 00:22:06.415 --> 00:22:07.535 and danger, they're always there. 478 00:22:08.575 --> 00:22:09.865 They, and they drive stories. 479 00:22:10.665 --> 00:22:12.605 And I don't mean stories necessarily about failure 480 00:22:12.665 --> 00:22:14.045 to have more risk and more danger. 481 00:22:14.515 --> 00:22:16.605 That those are just challenges along the 482 00:22:16.605 --> 00:22:17.685 road towards success. 483 00:22:18.225 --> 00:22:22.605 So, um, those risk and danger create excitement. 484 00:22:22.605 --> 00:22:24.485 They create tension, they create drama, 485 00:22:25.145 --> 00:22:27.325 but they don't necessarily go together. 486 00:22:27.325 --> 00:22:28.445 They're independent. 487 00:22:28.465 --> 00:22:31.645 You can, when we talk about influence, 488 00:22:31.715 --> 00:22:33.285 they're the levels of influence. 489 00:22:33.395 --> 00:22:35.925 They, they control because they control tension 490 00:22:35.985 --> 00:22:37.125 and they control attention. 491 00:22:38.075 --> 00:22:41.045 They control the way that you hold the audience. 492 00:22:41.625 --> 00:22:45.965 So, um, let's skip 493 00:22:45.965 --> 00:22:47.445 through a couple of slides. 494 00:22:47.825 --> 00:22:49.165 Uh, any any danger. 495 00:22:49.215 --> 00:22:53.925 We'll do, uh, emotional, mental, social, physical. 496 00:22:55.405 --> 00:22:57.625 That's where you put in. What could go wrong? 497 00:22:57.735 --> 00:23:00.705 It's the danger. And then just how likely is it? 498 00:23:00.725 --> 00:23:05.435 That's the risk. So let's create, uh, and, 499 00:23:05.535 --> 00:23:07.555 and these are for most stories of 500 00:23:08.115 --> 00:23:09.635 everyone's favorite dangers. 501 00:23:10.645 --> 00:23:14.095 Let's create some real danger here. 502 00:23:14.795 --> 00:23:18.175 Um, we have the butterfly, uh, uh, 503 00:23:18.275 --> 00:23:20.375 and the butterfly hises, you can't come in. 504 00:23:20.955 --> 00:23:25.645 And then with a high pitch whistle, the butterfly symon 505 00:23:25.645 --> 00:23:28.125 to swar summoned the swarm of Africanized killer bees 506 00:23:28.465 --> 00:23:31.285 who blocked the front door and threatened his life. 507 00:23:32.105 --> 00:23:35.125 Now we've got some danger, right? 508 00:23:36.705 --> 00:23:39.045 So he crept under the back door, went in, got his milk, 509 00:23:39.435 --> 00:23:42.525 he's no dummy, he's not gonna face all those killer bees. 510 00:23:42.705 --> 00:23:44.645 Uh, went under the back door, got his milk, went home. 511 00:23:44.665 --> 00:23:48.505 The end. If we're gonna put this danger in the story, 512 00:23:50.675 --> 00:23:52.955 audiences demand 513 00:23:53.385 --> 00:23:57.595 that characters face it or deal with it. 514 00:23:59.295 --> 00:24:00.635 So what we're missing still 515 00:24:00.895 --> 00:24:04.335 is motives. 516 00:24:06.475 --> 00:24:09.655 Why in the world would he deal with 517 00:24:10.785 --> 00:24:12.115 Africanized killer bees? 518 00:24:12.415 --> 00:24:14.995 Um, if he's gonna go in the front door and, and struggle 519 00:24:15.015 --> 00:24:18.295 and force his way through, motive 520 00:24:18.825 --> 00:24:21.135 winds up being one of the most important 521 00:24:21.275 --> 00:24:22.495 of all of the elements. 522 00:24:24.485 --> 00:24:28.535 Why? Because we judge events 523 00:24:28.675 --> 00:24:30.455 and characters by what, 524 00:24:30.555 --> 00:24:33.375 how we interpret their motives, not their goals. 525 00:24:34.925 --> 00:24:39.025 We can excuse almost any goal if the motives behind it are, 526 00:24:39.955 --> 00:24:43.255 um, what we think are socially acceptable, normative. 527 00:24:44.165 --> 00:24:47.935 This is where values, beliefs, attitudes, prejudices, um, 528 00:24:48.945 --> 00:24:52.425 fears, all of those internal elements come in. 529 00:24:52.655 --> 00:24:55.745 They come in as the, as what drives us to go 530 00:24:55.745 --> 00:24:58.825 after goals, drives us to do things that are motives. 531 00:25:00.105 --> 00:25:02.375 Watch what happens to the way 532 00:25:02.375 --> 00:25:04.135 that you relate to the character. 533 00:25:04.235 --> 00:25:06.575 He in this so little, little story we're building, 534 00:25:07.635 --> 00:25:10.135 as we put in a motive for him. 535 00:25:11.415 --> 00:25:12.915 Um, he went to the store for some milk 536 00:25:13.465 --> 00:25:15.995 that would keep his deathly ill son alive 537 00:25:16.245 --> 00:25:17.315 until the doctor arrived. 538 00:25:17.375 --> 00:25:20.995 That's a motive. Now, I also added in, I wanted him 539 00:25:21.615 --> 00:25:23.195 was we said we wanted him to struggle 540 00:25:23.415 --> 00:25:24.955 and not to go around to the back door. 541 00:25:25.335 --> 00:25:27.755 So I added in also that he went under the front door 542 00:25:27.855 --> 00:25:31.995 and beat his wristed his life, swatting his way through, uh, 543 00:25:32.225 --> 00:25:33.235 through the attack. 544 00:25:33.295 --> 00:25:35.435 The killer bees that struggle. 545 00:25:36.215 --> 00:25:37.675 But look at the effect of the motive. 546 00:25:37.785 --> 00:25:40.755 Then if he is risking his life, threatening his, um, 547 00:25:41.135 --> 00:25:44.515 if he's risking his life for the bees facing the bees, 548 00:25:45.575 --> 00:25:47.115 we need to have a motive for it. 549 00:25:47.645 --> 00:25:51.825 And as soon as we give him a motive that, uh, in this case 550 00:25:53.415 --> 00:25:55.785 support his son, who's definitely ill son, 551 00:25:56.115 --> 00:25:57.745 we're not quite sure what that illness is. 552 00:25:57.745 --> 00:25:59.345 That, uh, a definitely illness 553 00:25:59.345 --> 00:26:01.105 that can be solved by a quart of milk. 554 00:26:01.125 --> 00:26:03.345 But we, we'll go with it for the sake of the story. 555 00:26:04.885 --> 00:26:06.385 We now have the effect of motive. 556 00:26:06.685 --> 00:26:11.345 And it's a very powerful effect. How do you get to motive? 557 00:26:12.705 --> 00:26:16.685 Motive comes from the why question. Why'd they do that? 558 00:26:17.305 --> 00:26:19.125 Why is that? Why'd they do that? 559 00:26:19.255 --> 00:26:22.005 Three and four year olds, they learned 560 00:26:22.755 --> 00:26:24.285 that the why question is one 561 00:26:24.285 --> 00:26:25.325 of the most important in the world 562 00:26:25.325 --> 00:26:29.365 because it gives them access to motive, gives them access 563 00:26:29.385 --> 00:26:33.005 to the, the the thinking that goes behind actions. 564 00:26:34.285 --> 00:26:38.825 Um, so motive. Now we put in struggles. 565 00:26:38.835 --> 00:26:42.265 We've, that was the slapping his way through the, 566 00:26:42.655 --> 00:26:44.805 through all the killer bees motive. 567 00:26:45.135 --> 00:26:46.285 We've skipped one and two. 568 00:26:46.465 --> 00:26:48.285 That's character and character traits. 569 00:26:48.545 --> 00:26:49.765 So let's put those in. 570 00:26:50.665 --> 00:26:52.885 It turns out when I say character positions, 571 00:26:53.665 --> 00:26:56.685 it turns out there are a couple of character positions 572 00:26:56.685 --> 00:27:00.405 that our brains are automatically set to fill 573 00:27:00.835 --> 00:27:02.765 with the available characters in a story. 574 00:27:03.135 --> 00:27:05.245 Who's the story about main character? One? 575 00:27:05.545 --> 00:27:08.525 Um, who, who's the bad guy? Antagonist, right? 576 00:27:08.525 --> 00:27:10.045 Antagonist is the embodiment 577 00:27:10.045 --> 00:27:12.765 of the biggest single obstacle blocking the character. 578 00:27:13.955 --> 00:27:17.575 Um, and then who, who really, who do I identify with? 579 00:27:18.415 --> 00:27:21.215 Identity, character. And one more that turns out 580 00:27:21.215 --> 00:27:22.295 to be very important, 581 00:27:22.655 --> 00:27:23.855 although it doesn't show up in any 582 00:27:23.855 --> 00:27:25.255 of the classical literature, 583 00:27:25.555 --> 00:27:30.175 and that's by name called the climax character. 584 00:27:30.315 --> 00:27:31.815 It really is the power position. 585 00:27:33.145 --> 00:27:36.055 Every audience member is going to assess for themselves. 586 00:27:36.315 --> 00:27:37.815 Who has the power 587 00:27:38.355 --> 00:27:39.535 to make this story come out 588 00:27:39.535 --> 00:27:40.615 the way it's supposed to come out? 589 00:27:42.035 --> 00:27:43.095 And they will blame 590 00:27:43.205 --> 00:27:46.855 that power character if they don't make it come out the way 591 00:27:46.855 --> 00:27:48.695 that that audience member thinks they should. 592 00:27:49.715 --> 00:27:51.975 Um, so those are the character positions. 593 00:27:51.975 --> 00:27:55.015 Character traits are just any bit of information, any bit 594 00:27:55.015 --> 00:27:57.735 of detail, really about the character that makes 595 00:27:57.975 --> 00:28:01.895 that character memorable more technically makes the audience 596 00:28:02.285 --> 00:28:05.735 able to remember who the character is, right? 597 00:28:05.925 --> 00:28:07.015 Memorable in that way. 598 00:28:07.315 --> 00:28:08.335 Not necessarily a good way, 599 00:28:08.335 --> 00:28:10.415 but just be able to identify, oh, 600 00:28:10.415 --> 00:28:11.695 that's who that character is. 601 00:28:12.575 --> 00:28:13.985 It's character and character traits. 602 00:28:14.485 --> 00:28:19.185 Um, so let's, um, we need to create some, 603 00:28:19.215 --> 00:28:22.585 some in information about he who went to the store 604 00:28:22.585 --> 00:28:24.945 that would make him actually interesting. 605 00:28:25.095 --> 00:28:26.545 What kind of information does that? 606 00:28:27.955 --> 00:28:29.075 Anything, anything 607 00:28:29.075 --> 00:28:30.755 that differentiates this character 608 00:28:30.755 --> 00:28:31.915 from the other characters around them. 609 00:28:34.035 --> 00:28:37.235 Anything will do something they own something, 610 00:28:37.235 --> 00:28:40.355 they possess something, something that they do a job, 611 00:28:40.555 --> 00:28:42.755 a position, something from their background. 612 00:28:43.255 --> 00:28:45.995 So what they're afraid of, what they're not afraid of, uh, 613 00:28:46.005 --> 00:28:47.995 their habits, their quirks, their 614 00:28:48.065 --> 00:28:49.595 what they're good at, what they're bad at. 615 00:28:50.315 --> 00:28:53.685 Anything will do, uh, as long 616 00:28:53.745 --> 00:28:55.245 as it makes them into an individual. 617 00:28:55.745 --> 00:28:58.125 So I got carried away 618 00:28:58.305 --> 00:29:02.975 and, um, went wild with, I now named him Bob. 619 00:29:03.595 --> 00:29:05.695 Kindly a, a kindly bald man ever since. 620 00:29:05.875 --> 00:29:10.655 His severe reaction to a was thing when, when he was 10, uh, 621 00:29:10.765 --> 00:29:14.055 lurched to the store on his skateboard, using his crutches 622 00:29:14.055 --> 00:29:15.175 to propel him down the street. 623 00:29:15.515 --> 00:29:17.895 Uh, since one leg and one arm were in cast 624 00:29:17.895 --> 00:29:20.375 after his coke bottle, bottom glass thick, 625 00:29:20.405 --> 00:29:23.855 fell off leaving him virtual, virtually blind 626 00:29:23.955 --> 00:29:25.895 and causing him to tumble down the front stairs. 627 00:29:26.015 --> 00:29:28.695 I just wanted to make him give him, I wanted 628 00:29:28.695 --> 00:29:30.495 to increase risk and danger is what I wanted to do 629 00:29:31.315 --> 00:29:33.095 by diminishing his ability. 630 00:29:34.905 --> 00:29:38.085 If you think he is less able to confront 631 00:29:38.745 --> 00:29:40.085 the killer bees, 632 00:29:41.605 --> 00:29:44.875 that increases risk, right? 633 00:29:45.265 --> 00:29:48.275 Because he is less able to confront the bees. 634 00:29:48.275 --> 00:29:50.315 So he then is more likely 635 00:29:50.695 --> 00:29:55.485 to wind up being stung severely. 636 00:29:56.385 --> 00:29:59.885 Um, anyway, not a great story, 637 00:30:00.345 --> 00:30:01.565 but the elements are there. 638 00:30:01.565 --> 00:30:04.965 What are those elements? Let's look. We're missing one. 639 00:30:05.385 --> 00:30:09.125 And the last one is details. What are details? 640 00:30:10.165 --> 00:30:14.165 Anything your senses would record if you were there live. 641 00:30:15.355 --> 00:30:16.535 That's what details are. 642 00:30:17.505 --> 00:30:19.915 What are senses would record what it looks like, 643 00:30:19.915 --> 00:30:22.715 sounds like, feels like, smells, like, uh, that's it. 644 00:30:23.505 --> 00:30:26.165 So cha And they can be about the characters. 645 00:30:26.235 --> 00:30:28.285 They can be our, our sensory details. 646 00:30:28.315 --> 00:30:31.005 They can be about the scenes, what it seemed look like, 647 00:30:31.005 --> 00:30:33.325 sound like, smell, like, feel like, or about the events. 648 00:30:34.395 --> 00:30:36.495 That's details. And there they are. 649 00:30:37.035 --> 00:30:41.115 We have character who is of interest to us, 650 00:30:42.075 --> 00:30:46.005 has a goal backed by some motive, blocked by problems 651 00:30:46.005 --> 00:30:48.845 and conflicts that create risk and danger. 652 00:30:48.845 --> 00:30:51.325 Character then must struggle to get through 653 00:30:51.325 --> 00:30:53.565 and past problems and conflicts facing risk 654 00:30:53.565 --> 00:30:56.005 and danger to achieve a goal that's important to them. 655 00:30:56.515 --> 00:30:58.365 That really is a definition of a story. 656 00:30:58.385 --> 00:31:03.315 And those are the elements. Uh, and now what are they? 657 00:31:03.415 --> 00:31:06.395 If you wanted to put them in writing, there they are. 658 00:31:07.255 --> 00:31:10.215 Um, those are the eight. 659 00:31:10.875 --> 00:31:15.595 The more you use those elements consciously, 660 00:31:15.705 --> 00:31:17.115 cognitively with your students, 661 00:31:17.535 --> 00:31:19.995 the more they become consciously aware of 662 00:31:20.075 --> 00:31:22.355 how their brains automatically work and function. 663 00:31:22.855 --> 00:31:26.075 And the more able they are to c to consciously, 664 00:31:26.585 --> 00:31:30.115 intentionally use those elements in their own creations 665 00:31:30.455 --> 00:31:33.035 and as part of their own development, their own learning. 666 00:31:33.495 --> 00:31:36.155 You want the short version of it. Here it is blank. 667 00:31:37.275 --> 00:31:41.915 A character needed blank, a goal because blank motive, 668 00:31:42.695 --> 00:31:45.195 but problems and conflicts, risk and danger. 669 00:31:45.775 --> 00:31:48.635 So they have to struggle and finally come back 670 00:31:48.635 --> 00:31:50.275 and resolve the goal at the end of the story. 671 00:31:51.335 --> 00:31:53.835 That's the short version of those eight elements. 672 00:31:54.175 --> 00:31:56.675 Now, I was gonna put those to work couple, 673 00:31:56.995 --> 00:32:00.675 I wanna show you two quick games, amazingly fun, simple 674 00:32:01.305 --> 00:32:02.435 work with any age group. 675 00:32:03.345 --> 00:32:05.495 First, the big three plus here are the big three. 676 00:32:06.075 --> 00:32:10.075 You get three students up, volunteers go to the first one. 677 00:32:10.075 --> 00:32:11.435 You say, okay, we're gonna make up a story. 678 00:32:11.605 --> 00:32:12.715 Glass is gonna make up a story. 679 00:32:13.015 --> 00:32:15.435 Who is this story gonna be about? Rules. 680 00:32:15.815 --> 00:32:19.315 It must be a fictional never before made up character. 681 00:32:19.315 --> 00:32:21.555 It can't be someone that they know, someone in the room. 682 00:32:21.975 --> 00:32:23.995 It can't be a cartoon character 683 00:32:23.995 --> 00:32:26.235 that they all know must be a fictional character, 684 00:32:26.525 --> 00:32:27.595 never before made up. 685 00:32:27.595 --> 00:32:29.315 Does not have to be a human being. 686 00:32:29.995 --> 00:32:32.085 Doesn't even have to be a alive, could be a teacup. 687 00:32:34.415 --> 00:32:38.835 As long as we can then ascribe, um, some agency 688 00:32:38.985 --> 00:32:40.005 to that object. 689 00:32:40.195 --> 00:32:44.245 Okay? First one, you go to the second one, you say, alright, 690 00:32:44.705 --> 00:32:49.405 in this story, what does blank the character want 691 00:32:49.465 --> 00:32:51.845 or need to do or get in this story? 692 00:32:52.385 --> 00:32:54.525 And the key words are want or need, 693 00:32:55.485 --> 00:32:58.145 and what are they gonna, uh, and then they'll say, what? 694 00:32:58.145 --> 00:33:01.185 Well, in this story, the rules are that has to be something 695 00:33:01.185 --> 00:33:02.985 that is physical, tangible. 696 00:33:05.085 --> 00:33:06.545 Uh, it, it doesn't have 697 00:33:06.545 --> 00:33:08.825 to necessarily make sense for the character. 698 00:33:10.385 --> 00:33:13.565 If we have a teacup, uh, the teacup could want 699 00:33:13.565 --> 00:33:15.245 to be president, you know, I don't know, 700 00:33:15.255 --> 00:33:16.285 prime minister of Canada. 701 00:33:16.885 --> 00:33:19.005 I, I, I don't know. 702 00:33:20.105 --> 00:33:24.795 Um, as long as it's something 703 00:33:24.795 --> 00:33:27.435 that can be visualized, can be is tangible. 704 00:33:27.815 --> 00:33:30.715 So you look the third, the third cha the third student. 705 00:33:30.895 --> 00:33:34.435 And you say, all right, blank character wants blank. 706 00:33:34.705 --> 00:33:38.275 What, whatever, uh, the second person created, you say, 707 00:33:38.455 --> 00:33:40.355 so how come they don't have it? 708 00:33:40.895 --> 00:33:43.075 What's keeping blank from getting that? 709 00:33:46.045 --> 00:33:50.225 And then the, those are the triggers then for a story. 710 00:33:50.455 --> 00:33:53.825 Then you, you, you go, um, we'll go to the plus part. 711 00:33:54.405 --> 00:33:58.345 So the plus part, this is when we really expand the story, 712 00:33:58.855 --> 00:34:03.145 come back to, to, uh, character number two and say, 713 00:34:04.045 --> 00:34:06.345 or student number two, and say, no, why? 714 00:34:07.745 --> 00:34:12.605 Why do they want that? Um, you then start 715 00:34:12.625 --> 00:34:14.765 to expand to the whole class 716 00:34:15.025 --> 00:34:17.125 and let them go on other elements 717 00:34:17.125 --> 00:34:19.565 that could be keeping the character from the goal. 718 00:34:21.855 --> 00:34:25.615 What literally you are doing is this 719 00:34:27.565 --> 00:34:29.115 first character's creating first 720 00:34:29.115 --> 00:34:30.435 student's creating a main character. 721 00:34:30.695 --> 00:34:32.035 Second one's creating goal. 722 00:34:32.165 --> 00:34:33.875 Third are creating conflicts and problems. 723 00:34:33.875 --> 00:34:35.595 And the why question creates motives. 724 00:34:37.405 --> 00:34:41.545 And let the class then go always going back to those, 725 00:34:41.805 --> 00:34:43.545 to those, those elements. 726 00:34:44.405 --> 00:34:48.955 And they will create a great story that works every time. 727 00:34:49.295 --> 00:34:51.395 In fact, what usually happens is you need 728 00:34:51.395 --> 00:34:54.155 to do crowd control because pretty soon every every every 729 00:34:54.155 --> 00:34:56.475 student in the room can see in their head the 730 00:34:56.475 --> 00:34:57.595 way the story ought to go. 731 00:34:57.695 --> 00:35:01.605 And they're all fighting to take control of the story. Why? 732 00:35:01.605 --> 00:35:05.125 Because those core elements create the story. 733 00:35:06.615 --> 00:35:09.065 It's those core elements, character goal problems 734 00:35:09.065 --> 00:35:10.185 and conflicts, motives. 735 00:35:11.125 --> 00:35:14.385 And then you play out the story with the risk 736 00:35:14.405 --> 00:35:18.465 and the danger that those, um, uh, 737 00:35:18.465 --> 00:35:20.025 that those problems and conflicts create. 738 00:35:20.205 --> 00:35:23.185 And with the struggles to deal with problems 739 00:35:23.185 --> 00:35:27.595 and conflicts, it's so simple. 740 00:35:28.375 --> 00:35:31.635 Um, and yet it is so profoundly revealing 741 00:35:31.745 --> 00:35:34.595 because it focuses them consciously on 742 00:35:34.595 --> 00:35:37.925 what they intuitively, subconsciously, automatically do. 743 00:35:37.945 --> 00:35:39.845 Anyway, the other one is this. 744 00:35:40.265 --> 00:35:43.845 Uh, the first time I tried this game, I was working with 745 00:35:44.585 --> 00:35:47.425 middle school, high school students, um, 746 00:35:48.005 --> 00:35:50.665 in a summer course at uc, Berkeley. 747 00:35:51.565 --> 00:35:53.585 And I had no idea if it would actually work. 748 00:35:54.725 --> 00:35:57.305 And I was amazed at how well it worked. 749 00:35:57.305 --> 00:35:59.505 I've now tried it with groups. 750 00:35:59.745 --> 00:36:02.665 I guess I've never gone below 751 00:36:03.335 --> 00:36:05.185 four year olds, okay? 752 00:36:05.595 --> 00:36:06.825 There might've been some three year olds 753 00:36:06.825 --> 00:36:07.905 in the room, mostly fours. 754 00:36:08.165 --> 00:36:10.425 Uh, and, and, and literally then and up. 755 00:36:10.765 --> 00:36:13.105 So create a character 756 00:36:13.165 --> 00:36:16.415 and an action action. 757 00:36:16.415 --> 00:36:17.695 It can be as simple as, 758 00:36:18.515 --> 00:36:19.735 and when we create a character, 759 00:36:19.735 --> 00:36:23.055 what we wanna do is identify at least a name, 760 00:36:23.285 --> 00:36:27.155 what we're gonna call the character, um, species 761 00:36:27.415 --> 00:36:29.395 or object, what whatever they are, 762 00:36:30.095 --> 00:36:31.995 and some sense of relative age. 763 00:36:33.305 --> 00:36:35.205 And then that's kind of the minimal of it. 764 00:36:35.465 --> 00:36:39.645 So, you know, young, young John walked to the corner, 765 00:36:40.305 --> 00:36:43.925 uh, walked down to the corner 766 00:36:44.915 --> 00:36:47.805 past his house, the character in action. 767 00:36:48.265 --> 00:36:50.605 So have someone create that and then ask why. 768 00:36:52.615 --> 00:36:53.955 And no matter what they answer, 769 00:36:53.975 --> 00:36:56.515 you say you just keep going with a why question. 770 00:36:56.865 --> 00:36:59.595 Yeah. And what will happen is they're going 771 00:36:59.695 --> 00:37:03.525 to create the backstory, who this character is, 772 00:37:03.585 --> 00:37:05.005 why they want it, where it came from, 773 00:37:05.425 --> 00:37:08.165 and they'll start to identify all of those elements. 774 00:37:08.385 --> 00:37:09.885 And as soon as they create more 775 00:37:09.885 --> 00:37:10.885 and more the backstory, 776 00:37:11.255 --> 00:37:13.765 every time someone creates some backstory element, 777 00:37:14.155 --> 00:37:17.445 they'll project the, the story going forward 778 00:37:18.575 --> 00:37:21.275 to incorporate and deal with that element. 779 00:37:21.585 --> 00:37:22.715 They create a why. 780 00:37:22.775 --> 00:37:25.155 You know, if one of the questions is, well, um, 781 00:37:25.495 --> 00:37:26.595 you know, so why do you do that? 782 00:37:27.065 --> 00:37:29.915 Well, because he is afraid of going out of the house, 783 00:37:29.915 --> 00:37:31.995 and this is the first time he is ever gone out of the house. 784 00:37:32.015 --> 00:37:33.955 And, uh, and so he is trying 785 00:37:33.955 --> 00:37:35.275 to see if he can make it all the way to the corner. 786 00:37:36.265 --> 00:37:39.195 Well, now we've got a, we've got some, uh, some, uh, fear 787 00:37:40.075 --> 00:37:42.515 identified that everyone is gonna project forward 788 00:37:42.585 --> 00:37:43.955 through the rest of the story. 789 00:37:45.975 --> 00:37:48.635 And it's amazing if you just keep saying why, 790 00:37:49.495 --> 00:37:50.595 why, why'd they do that? 791 00:37:50.695 --> 00:37:52.555 Why did they want that? Why did they think that? 792 00:37:53.015 --> 00:37:54.635 Um, why are they afraid of that? 793 00:37:55.015 --> 00:37:57.155 Why did they, you know, why did they say that? What? 794 00:37:57.315 --> 00:37:59.435 I don't care what happens. The why question 795 00:38:00.015 --> 00:38:03.115 drives students into creating the story elements. 796 00:38:03.295 --> 00:38:07.355 And you can keep then track of those elements, character, 797 00:38:07.505 --> 00:38:11.915 goal, motive, problems, conflict, blah, blah, blah, as 798 00:38:11.935 --> 00:38:13.035 as they're creating them. 799 00:38:13.945 --> 00:38:17.085 Uh, and they will amaze themselves at 800 00:38:17.195 --> 00:38:18.845 what they're able to create. 801 00:38:21.405 --> 00:38:24.465 Uh, so two games, real simple ones 802 00:38:25.395 --> 00:38:28.335 or don't require, don't, don't, don't require a lot of prep, 803 00:38:28.705 --> 00:38:32.895 don't require you to, um, write a lot on the board. 804 00:38:33.195 --> 00:38:35.165 But again, what we're creating here is 805 00:38:35.165 --> 00:38:36.645 character gold problems. 806 00:38:36.665 --> 00:38:38.965 And, and then by keep asking the storyline, 807 00:38:39.425 --> 00:38:41.965 by di diving more into the background of the story, 808 00:38:41.975 --> 00:38:43.805 we're creating the storyline going forward. 809 00:38:45.245 --> 00:38:48.225 And it's amazing how simple it is, 810 00:38:48.725 --> 00:38:52.335 and yet how powerful it is it 811 00:38:53.695 --> 00:38:58.425 focusing in on those elements that really drive story. 812 00:38:58.565 --> 00:39:02.225 Now notice in both of these games, what I didn't ask is 813 00:39:02.225 --> 00:39:05.625 what is really any questions directly about what happens? 814 00:39:09.275 --> 00:39:11.525 Stories are character based. 815 00:39:13.605 --> 00:39:17.175 The reason we have events in the story is 816 00:39:17.195 --> 00:39:21.405 so characters have an opportunity to 817 00:39:22.825 --> 00:39:24.425 struggle to achieve goal. 818 00:39:25.995 --> 00:39:29.855 So we need events, but the events are dependent. 819 00:39:31.705 --> 00:39:34.205 The things that are independent are character, goal, 820 00:39:34.545 --> 00:39:36.085 motive, those elements. 821 00:39:37.625 --> 00:39:40.725 Um, and of, of them, the one 822 00:39:40.725 --> 00:39:43.325 that it should come last in terms 823 00:39:43.325 --> 00:39:46.125 of the development is the struggles what they do. 824 00:39:47.195 --> 00:39:49.005 Kids always want to jump far too early 825 00:39:49.305 --> 00:39:50.565 to the events, to what happens. 826 00:39:50.625 --> 00:39:53.365 And they get stuck if you get them in the habit 827 00:39:53.365 --> 00:39:56.885 of thinking character first, character goal, motive first, 828 00:39:57.745 --> 00:39:59.725 the stories never get stuck 829 00:39:59.725 --> 00:40:02.445 because they've got the heart and soul of the story. 830 00:40:02.945 --> 00:40:05.485 And then they can develop and play with it as they want. 831 00:40:06.945 --> 00:40:10.995 Anyway, that is 832 00:40:11.665 --> 00:40:16.315 what I really wanted to present those core elements 833 00:40:16.315 --> 00:40:20.795 of story, they come from the way the human brain is 834 00:40:21.885 --> 00:40:23.195 physically configured 835 00:40:23.215 --> 00:40:25.395 and programmed to make sense of the world 836 00:40:25.455 --> 00:40:26.635 and create meaning from it. 837 00:40:27.905 --> 00:40:31.835 They give you some very specific, powerful tools that are 838 00:40:31.835 --> 00:40:33.395 so easy and fun to use, 839 00:40:34.015 --> 00:40:35.555 and yet that are very 840 00:40:35.835 --> 00:40:37.235 profoundly powerful with your students. 841 00:40:37.775 --> 00:40:40.915 Mm-hmm. That's the idea that I wanted to get at. 842 00:40:41.415 --> 00:40:44.315 Um, so for all of you, good luck with your stories 843 00:40:45.545 --> 00:40:48.405 and have a good time playing 844 00:40:48.755 --> 00:40:51.165 with those elements and with your stories. Mm-hmm. 845 00:40:51.795 --> 00:40:52.885 That was brilliant Kendall. 846 00:40:53.365 --> 00:40:55.405 I think, um, one of the things that stuck out for me 847 00:40:55.405 --> 00:40:57.445 as well was when you're playing the why game, 848 00:40:58.085 --> 00:40:59.685 I feel like children are very good at doing 849 00:40:59.685 --> 00:41:01.125 that naturally, aren't they? 850 00:41:01.125 --> 00:41:03.125 Because often, often when you're working 851 00:41:03.125 --> 00:41:04.805 with children or you've got children 852 00:41:04.805 --> 00:41:06.845 Always, You'll always get that. Why? Well, 853 00:41:06.845 --> 00:41:07.845 Why? Yeah, why, why? 854 00:41:07.845 --> 00:41:09.325 And, and, 855 00:41:09.385 --> 00:41:11.605 and really that's what they're after. 856 00:41:12.035 --> 00:41:14.525 Yeah. They, they, they, they're trying 857 00:41:14.525 --> 00:41:15.965 to form a story in their heads 858 00:41:16.145 --> 00:41:17.725 and they're missing these big pieces. 859 00:41:18.225 --> 00:41:19.685 Yes. And not sure about goals. 860 00:41:19.685 --> 00:41:21.645 They're not sure about and, and goal, it's goals 861 00:41:21.645 --> 00:41:23.245 and motives that they're really going after. 862 00:41:23.585 --> 00:41:24.645 Why do we do that? Why do you want 863 00:41:24.645 --> 00:41:25.725 me, why do I have to go to bed? 864 00:41:25.945 --> 00:41:27.205 Why do I have to work my teeth? 865 00:41:27.205 --> 00:41:30.085 Why do I have to eat my vegetables? Why, why, why, why what? 866 00:41:30.745 --> 00:41:33.685 And and they're trying to understand the, the story. 867 00:41:33.905 --> 00:41:37.795 And it really is the, I'll say it this way, 868 00:41:37.795 --> 00:41:41.155 when it first hit me that that's what they were doing. 869 00:41:41.655 --> 00:41:44.595 Mm-hmm. That I, when, when I first connected it, I mean, 870 00:41:44.595 --> 00:41:46.955 it was like one of those aha moments where you say, oh, 871 00:41:47.865 --> 00:41:51.115 they're not just annoying, they're really trying 872 00:41:51.115 --> 00:41:53.195 to figure out the world. Yeah. 873 00:41:53.465 --> 00:41:54.475 Yeah. And it's, 874 00:41:54.495 --> 00:41:56.275 and it's big for them, like you said, like, 875 00:41:56.535 --> 00:41:57.795 you know, they're doing something really fun. 876 00:41:57.795 --> 00:41:59.275 They're playing with the toys downstairs, 877 00:41:59.275 --> 00:42:00.555 and all of a sudden it's like, we want you to go 878 00:42:00.555 --> 00:42:01.555 and brush your teeth, but why? 879 00:42:02.075 --> 00:42:04.475 What, what, what are we gonna do that for? Like, yeah. 880 00:42:04.795 --> 00:42:07.035 I, I get it. What, what would be, what, 881 00:42:07.225 --> 00:42:08.955 what in the world would I want to do that for? 882 00:42:09.025 --> 00:42:12.155 Yeah. Uh, it, yeah, it is, and it, 883 00:42:12.155 --> 00:42:14.955 and it's about understanding, understanding life, 884 00:42:14.955 --> 00:42:16.675 understanding the world around them. 885 00:42:17.495 --> 00:42:20.395 That's it. Yeah. No, it's really interesting that, um, 886 00:42:20.585 --> 00:42:22.555 just thinking about, obviously the work we do at Tels 887 00:42:22.555 --> 00:42:24.515 Toolkit and we have the character set 888 00:42:24.515 --> 00:42:26.275 and problem solution that we use, right? 889 00:42:26.625 --> 00:42:29.875 Yeah. How would you elicit some of this stuff 890 00:42:30.265 --> 00:42:32.395 that you're talking about through those stories 891 00:42:32.465 --> 00:42:33.475 with the youngest children? 892 00:42:34.055 --> 00:42:36.715 So we work mainly in early years. Like how would you, right. 893 00:42:37.055 --> 00:42:38.915 How would you, obviously the character, the danger, 894 00:42:38.975 --> 00:42:40.195 the risk, those things. 895 00:42:40.375 --> 00:42:41.795 Car character. Yeah. 896 00:42:41.975 --> 00:42:45.795 Um, don't, 897 00:42:46.685 --> 00:42:50.835 don't use the vocabulary goal, motive, risk, danger, uh, uh, 898 00:42:51.425 --> 00:42:54.775 it's what what are they trying to do? 899 00:42:54.775 --> 00:42:56.095 What are they after? Why, why, 900 00:42:56.195 --> 00:42:57.255 you know, what, what do they want? 901 00:42:57.255 --> 00:43:01.375 What do they need? Three year olds 902 00:43:01.435 --> 00:43:04.375 or, um, certainly by three year olds, 903 00:43:04.375 --> 00:43:05.415 they're good at, they're good at those. 904 00:43:06.075 --> 00:43:07.935 Uh, and then for the conflict 905 00:43:07.935 --> 00:43:11.575 and problems, ooh, what, what, what might go wrong? 906 00:43:12.195 --> 00:43:13.375 Yes. What might go wrong? 907 00:43:13.515 --> 00:43:15.095 Uh, that's a And then 908 00:43:17.445 --> 00:43:18.985 do you think, do you think it'll happen? 909 00:43:19.285 --> 00:43:21.065 Do you think it'll happen? That's 910 00:43:21.065 --> 00:43:22.145 a risk, that's a risk question. 911 00:43:22.645 --> 00:43:25.585 Um, what, what would happen to, what would happen 912 00:43:25.585 --> 00:43:27.385 to them is a danger question. 913 00:43:27.765 --> 00:43:28.985 Do you think it'll really happen? 914 00:43:29.325 --> 00:43:31.185 Do you think you will, will it, 915 00:43:31.295 --> 00:43:33.745 will you think it'll really ha those are, so 916 00:43:33.745 --> 00:43:35.065 that's risk and danger questions. 917 00:43:36.535 --> 00:43:39.155 Um, solution is, you know, again, 918 00:43:39.335 --> 00:43:41.755 that's resolving the solution is to resolve the goal. 919 00:43:42.775 --> 00:43:45.355 So we never really know what the kids want 920 00:43:45.355 --> 00:43:46.635 to get to the solution. 921 00:43:47.815 --> 00:43:49.545 It's so much more powerful for them 922 00:43:49.685 --> 00:43:51.665 and easier for them to get to the solution. 923 00:43:52.205 --> 00:43:55.105 If they've defined art, articulated the goal, 924 00:43:56.055 --> 00:43:57.225 what are they after, what are they after? 925 00:43:57.225 --> 00:43:58.705 And what, because that's 926 00:43:58.725 --> 00:44:00.145 the solution that they're going for. 927 00:44:01.005 --> 00:44:04.765 The, um, and 928 00:44:06.545 --> 00:44:10.995 often, often kids think, 929 00:44:11.375 --> 00:44:14.315 oh, if I put a problem in the purpose of the story is 930 00:44:14.315 --> 00:44:15.675 to resolve the problem. 931 00:44:19.155 --> 00:44:20.255 And it might be, 932 00:44:20.995 --> 00:44:23.575 but then the question comes up, well, why, in the, 933 00:44:23.715 --> 00:44:25.575 why do you need to, what, you know, 934 00:44:25.715 --> 00:44:27.055 why did they face the problem? 935 00:44:28.555 --> 00:44:32.205 And so the story lacks, um, it, 936 00:44:32.385 --> 00:44:33.725 it, it lacks depth. 937 00:44:33.785 --> 00:44:37.725 It lacks purpose until you start to say, what do they want? 938 00:44:37.795 --> 00:44:41.565 What do they need that causes them to face a problem? 939 00:44:43.545 --> 00:44:46.885 So it's the goal and motive behind the problem. 940 00:44:46.995 --> 00:44:50.565 It's quick to, for them to go character, problem, solution. 941 00:44:52.635 --> 00:44:56.135 If in playing with a character they go for goal 942 00:44:57.075 --> 00:44:59.175 and why they want the goal, what are they 943 00:44:59.175 --> 00:45:00.495 after and why do they want it? 944 00:45:00.955 --> 00:45:04.255 And then create a problem, they'll always create problems 945 00:45:04.255 --> 00:45:07.305 that block characters from achieving the goal always. 946 00:45:08.005 --> 00:45:10.425 So that the pro the solution to the problem 947 00:45:11.735 --> 00:45:13.385 also becomes pathway to goal. 948 00:45:14.615 --> 00:45:17.825 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And, and, and yet at the same time, 949 00:45:18.575 --> 00:45:20.265 because you've created purpose 950 00:45:20.805 --> 00:45:23.345 for facing the problem mm-hmm. 951 00:45:23.655 --> 00:45:28.285 What you have created is a much more powerful, 952 00:45:29.385 --> 00:45:32.805 uh, story that they recognize 953 00:45:32.865 --> 00:45:36.085 and certainly, you know, their parents recognize 954 00:45:36.745 --> 00:45:40.965 is a much more profound and, uh, 955 00:45:41.065 --> 00:45:42.725 and powerful and effective story. 956 00:45:43.465 --> 00:45:45.005 And it's just taking the time 957 00:45:45.985 --> 00:45:48.965 before you go character problem to go character 958 00:45:49.675 --> 00:45:50.885 goal and motive problem. 959 00:45:51.905 --> 00:45:53.405 Uh, and, and, 960 00:45:53.625 --> 00:45:57.275 and then they also 961 00:45:59.095 --> 00:46:00.985 want to, if it, if they create the character, 962 00:46:00.985 --> 00:46:02.905 they're gonna wanna solve the problem right away. Mm-hmm. 963 00:46:03.055 --> 00:46:04.585 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. The 964 00:46:04.615 --> 00:46:08.985 More you can make that slow, slow that down, have them 965 00:46:09.695 --> 00:46:12.945 have more stuff go wrong, what else could go wrong? 966 00:46:12.945 --> 00:46:15.345 Mm-hmm. What else could go wrong? Yes. 967 00:46:15.525 --> 00:46:18.305 Um, and they'll love it when it gets created, 968 00:46:19.325 --> 00:46:22.265 but for them, they always feel very obligated. 969 00:46:22.455 --> 00:46:26.065 Kids are very loyally obligated to their characters 970 00:46:26.525 --> 00:46:28.785 and wanna make life easy for them. 971 00:46:29.525 --> 00:46:32.745 And, and don't, and it takes a long time for them to learn 972 00:46:33.085 --> 00:46:37.945 and believe that stories are about making life miserable and 973 00:46:38.005 --> 00:46:40.865 and awful for characters while, while they have 974 00:46:40.865 --> 00:46:43.265 to struggle in face risk and danger. 975 00:46:43.525 --> 00:46:45.465 And it's just, it's just grim. 976 00:46:45.925 --> 00:46:50.235 Um, but that's a learned, that's a learned thing. 977 00:46:50.655 --> 00:46:55.035 Uh, but the key, they can, if they can go character and 978 00:46:55.035 --> 00:46:58.075 before they go to problem go golden motives Yes. 979 00:46:58.105 --> 00:46:59.635 What are they after? Why are they after it? 980 00:47:00.295 --> 00:47:01.635 And then let the problems 981 00:47:02.425 --> 00:47:04.835 will always fall in line within that structure. 982 00:47:05.735 --> 00:47:08.915 And then resolution of the problems then leads 983 00:47:09.015 --> 00:47:10.555 to goal achievement. 984 00:47:10.695 --> 00:47:12.195 So they have a way to end the story. 985 00:47:12.945 --> 00:47:13.995 They take care of the problem 986 00:47:14.215 --> 00:47:16.475 and they get, you know, 987 00:47:16.715 --> 00:47:18.075 whatever it was they were after in the first place. 988 00:47:19.105 --> 00:47:20.515 Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. 989 00:47:20.515 --> 00:47:23.475 Because often what you find that teachers will do 990 00:47:23.535 --> 00:47:26.915 or practitioners will do, is that you have the character 991 00:47:27.255 --> 00:47:28.675 and when you get to the setting, 992 00:47:29.115 --> 00:47:30.525 it's then about having a bit of fun 993 00:47:30.525 --> 00:47:32.525 with the character and doing something. 994 00:47:32.525 --> 00:47:35.405 They enjoy something they like, you know, they like running 995 00:47:35.465 --> 00:47:38.365 or swimming or dancing or sleeping or whatever it is. Yeah. 996 00:47:38.765 --> 00:47:40.045 I would love those things. Yeah. 997 00:47:40.245 --> 00:47:41.325 Whatever is, comes in 998 00:47:41.325 --> 00:47:42.925 and interferes with what they're wanting to do, 999 00:47:43.415 --> 00:47:45.765 which I suppose is their, is their purpose. 1000 00:47:46.455 --> 00:47:47.485 Right? And, 1001 00:47:47.485 --> 00:47:51.205 and they, so that becomes a really a goal, you know, 1002 00:47:51.265 --> 00:47:53.005 if they love to dance Yes. 1003 00:47:53.265 --> 00:47:55.965 Um, then we're gonna, we're automatically gonna look 1004 00:47:55.965 --> 00:47:57.365 for problems Yes. 1005 00:47:57.635 --> 00:47:59.205 That block them from dancing. 1006 00:47:59.385 --> 00:48:02.445 So that being able to dance beca it becomes a goal. 1007 00:48:03.145 --> 00:48:08.025 Um, it's, it, it happens automatically. 1008 00:48:08.605 --> 00:48:11.425 Yes. But to raise it to from, 1009 00:48:11.495 --> 00:48:14.385 from subconscious automatic level to a conscious level 1010 00:48:14.925 --> 00:48:17.225 really gives them control of that. 1011 00:48:17.485 --> 00:48:20.825 So they start to really understand how stories work 1012 00:48:20.965 --> 00:48:24.105 and, um, it, it shows up. 1013 00:48:24.525 --> 00:48:26.665 Uh, and there's some, some research 1014 00:48:26.665 --> 00:48:30.105 that I've helped a couple of groups in New Jersey 1015 00:48:30.205 --> 00:48:32.105 and in, what was the other one? 1016 00:48:32.625 --> 00:48:35.625 Colorado work on that awareness, uh, 1017 00:48:35.625 --> 00:48:38.225 shows up across the curriculum Yes. 1018 00:48:38.285 --> 00:48:40.665 Within a year or two so that it helps on math scores, 1019 00:48:41.285 --> 00:48:45.825 it helps, um, becoming conscious, more consciously aware 1020 00:48:45.825 --> 00:48:48.305 of those, those of story structural elements 1021 00:48:49.425 --> 00:48:53.015 shows up across the curriculum, uh, to the point 1022 00:48:53.015 --> 00:48:56.895 where you can statistically see the effect. 1023 00:48:57.315 --> 00:49:00.815 Yes. Um, so it's, it's very powerful, 1024 00:49:00.925 --> 00:49:02.535 wonderful stuff. Yeah, 1025 00:49:02.555 --> 00:49:03.655 No, it makes a lot of sense. 1026 00:49:03.715 --> 00:49:05.615 It makes a lot of sense because I remember reading 1027 00:49:05.615 --> 00:49:08.495 that actually in your research around the links with 1028 00:49:09.255 --> 00:49:12.735 children learning story structure in the early years linking 1029 00:49:12.735 --> 00:49:13.935 to GCSE math results. 1030 00:49:14.515 --> 00:49:16.055 Yep. And interestingly, 1031 00:49:16.055 --> 00:49:17.735 when we did our tells toolkit research, 1032 00:49:18.555 --> 00:49:21.335 we saw impact major children's math results, 1033 00:49:21.875 --> 00:49:23.455 and that was something we weren't expecting 1034 00:49:23.455 --> 00:49:24.895 to see in a really short time. 1035 00:49:25.275 --> 00:49:27.535 But, but yeah. And if you think about it, a lot 1036 00:49:27.535 --> 00:49:29.615 of maths is problem solving in terms 1037 00:49:29.635 --> 00:49:31.895 of telling a story about, you know, how, 1038 00:49:32.555 --> 00:49:34.215 you know, how's this gonna work? Yeah. 1039 00:49:34.605 --> 00:49:38.415 Math really is stories, uh, it's too bad we don't try 1040 00:49:38.415 --> 00:49:40.495 to teach it that way, but that's really what it is. 1041 00:49:40.605 --> 00:49:43.535 It's, it's, it's about, it's shorthand Yes. 1042 00:49:43.645 --> 00:49:46.015 More stories about the, the way the world works. 1043 00:49:46.445 --> 00:49:47.455 Yeah. Yeah. That's it. 1044 00:49:47.595 --> 00:49:49.135 One of the other things you said in, um, 1045 00:49:49.135 --> 00:49:50.975 when you were talking as well that was really interesting 1046 00:49:51.075 --> 00:49:54.035 was about, uh, right at the beginning when you had 1047 00:49:54.035 --> 00:49:55.515 that very first sentence was like, you went 1048 00:49:55.515 --> 00:49:59.035 to the shop when you said about how, um, 1049 00:49:59.185 --> 00:50:00.595 parents will say, oh, my child. 1050 00:50:00.595 --> 00:50:02.555 That's, that's the kind of story that they'd write. 1051 00:50:03.055 --> 00:50:05.835 Um, and it is that kind of link, I think sometimes 1052 00:50:06.145 --> 00:50:08.635 with what's actually happening in their child's head 1053 00:50:08.635 --> 00:50:10.475 and the story they've got there and what they have to write. 1054 00:50:11.065 --> 00:50:13.795 Yeah. And I think that that's sometimes where some 1055 00:50:13.795 --> 00:50:16.435 of these wonderful creative stories are lost 1056 00:50:16.735 --> 00:50:18.435 and it's keeping that up. 1057 00:50:18.915 --> 00:50:20.595 Absolutely. So, 1058 00:50:20.595 --> 00:50:22.795 I dunno if you wanna say anything about that side of things. 1059 00:50:23.015 --> 00:50:26.795 Oh, uh, interesting. Uh, yes. 1060 00:50:27.225 --> 00:50:31.425 Um, it is true that 1061 00:50:33.165 --> 00:50:37.265 the ability to effectively communicate a story 1062 00:50:38.015 --> 00:50:42.705 lags years behind the ability to effectively create a story. 1063 00:50:44.265 --> 00:50:48.035 Yeah. And that's particularly true 1064 00:50:48.825 --> 00:50:50.515 with writing the stories. 1065 00:50:51.945 --> 00:50:55.475 When you have to learn both vocabulary and spelling 1066 00:50:56.255 --> 00:50:58.035 and then all the grammar 1067 00:50:58.375 --> 00:51:02.435 and the, the, um, all the syntax related things, 1068 00:51:06.275 --> 00:51:10.635 children are much better able to verbalize a story. 1069 00:51:11.135 --> 00:51:14.835 Uh, and so I've tried to convince a number 1070 00:51:14.835 --> 00:51:16.555 of school districts that I've worked with, 1071 00:51:17.545 --> 00:51:21.235 even up into middle school level, like sixth, seventh, 1072 00:51:21.235 --> 00:51:23.555 eighth grade, the first two 1073 00:51:24.095 --> 00:51:27.275 or three drafts of every story should be recorded 1074 00:51:27.575 --> 00:51:28.595 and done orally. 1075 00:51:29.055 --> 00:51:30.645 Mm-hmm. Yes. 1076 00:51:31.635 --> 00:51:36.405 Because that, that skill develops faster. 1077 00:51:37.545 --> 00:51:42.285 And even in, in, in middle school, the act 1078 00:51:42.285 --> 00:51:46.285 of writing is the limiting the constraint 1079 00:51:46.865 --> 00:51:48.445 on the production of a story 1080 00:51:49.225 --> 00:51:52.405 and limits what they're willing, what 1081 00:51:52.915 --> 00:51:57.345 what students are willing to do in terms of writing 1082 00:51:58.915 --> 00:52:01.175 is limited not by their ability to create 1083 00:52:01.175 --> 00:52:03.095 or what they wanted to create or what they'd like to create, 1084 00:52:03.115 --> 00:52:04.735 but by their willingness to write. 1085 00:52:05.235 --> 00:52:07.815 Mm-hmm. And they have to learn to write 1086 00:52:08.485 --> 00:52:10.615 because that's the primary way 1087 00:52:10.615 --> 00:52:11.935 that we're, we're communicating. 1088 00:52:12.915 --> 00:52:16.655 But you want to let that be the servant 1089 00:52:17.075 --> 00:52:18.255 of the story. 1090 00:52:18.255 --> 00:52:21.855 Their ability to create and develop and, and, 1091 00:52:22.115 --> 00:52:23.655 and both story 1092 00:52:23.715 --> 00:52:26.175 and their, their story muscles, you know, their ability 1093 00:52:26.195 --> 00:52:28.455 to think, what happens if I muck around 1094 00:52:28.455 --> 00:52:29.575 with risk and danger? 1095 00:52:29.575 --> 00:52:31.095 What does it look like when I do that? 1096 00:52:32.075 --> 00:52:34.285 And so, um, 1097 00:52:38.475 --> 00:52:42.175 for young students especially, 1098 00:52:43.995 --> 00:52:48.425 um, they're very receptive to 1099 00:52:49.355 --> 00:52:50.905 adult enthusiasm. 1100 00:52:51.285 --> 00:52:54.515 Mm-hmm. And where's the best way to put that in? 1101 00:52:54.515 --> 00:52:56.395 It's the why question Re Yeah. 1102 00:52:56.915 --> 00:52:59.375 Whatever they say, really, why mm-hmm. 1103 00:53:00.045 --> 00:53:02.975 That keeps the story going. 1104 00:53:04.035 --> 00:53:08.175 Uh, it, it's also true with elementary school 1105 00:53:09.075 --> 00:53:10.135 and, and I, I, 1106 00:53:10.215 --> 00:53:12.895 I haven't tested it really at the middle school level 1107 00:53:13.215 --> 00:53:15.135 'cause I've been in a situation where I had that, 1108 00:53:15.195 --> 00:53:16.415 uh, that, that freedom. 1109 00:53:17.795 --> 00:53:22.695 But just, it's that why question that comes back that keeps, 1110 00:53:23.265 --> 00:53:27.865 gives them, says, says to them something, um, 1111 00:53:28.425 --> 00:53:30.705 apparently something in, in what I just said works. 1112 00:53:31.325 --> 00:53:32.785 Yes. It's effective. 1113 00:53:33.485 --> 00:53:37.185 And so now I've got encouragement to develop it. 1114 00:53:37.205 --> 00:53:40.425 And if you just, if you say, why did he want that? 1115 00:53:40.485 --> 00:53:42.425 Or why did he decide, 1116 00:53:42.525 --> 00:53:45.465 or why did she do it, then 1117 00:53:45.695 --> 00:53:49.185 that also provides a little direction for how 1118 00:53:49.245 --> 00:53:50.505 to expand the story. 1119 00:53:51.325 --> 00:53:54.905 Uh, and I, the problem is 1120 00:53:55.055 --> 00:53:57.665 that almost takes one-on-one effort. 1121 00:53:58.375 --> 00:54:01.705 It's hard to do that with a whole class at a time. 1122 00:54:02.565 --> 00:54:05.985 Uh, and so it's very difficult to, it's great for parents. 1123 00:54:06.765 --> 00:54:09.585 Yes. And boy, 1124 00:54:09.955 --> 00:54:11.825 every time I've done parent workshops, 1125 00:54:12.095 --> 00:54:14.985 when there was a period when I was able to get to schools 1126 00:54:15.245 --> 00:54:16.785 and then do a stay 1127 00:54:16.785 --> 00:54:20.065 and do a lot of evening parent workshops, the theme of all 1128 00:54:20.065 --> 00:54:23.065 of them was don't ask what happens next. 1129 00:54:23.815 --> 00:54:25.265 Just ask about the characters. 1130 00:54:25.575 --> 00:54:28.145 Keep asking about the characters, ask about their goals. 1131 00:54:28.525 --> 00:54:30.585 Why do they want that? Why did, what are they after? 1132 00:54:31.125 --> 00:54:33.025 Why were they after that? What, what, 1133 00:54:33.065 --> 00:54:34.425 I don't know what could go wrong. 1134 00:54:35.045 --> 00:54:37.425 You just so prompt them on anything but plot 1135 00:54:38.815 --> 00:54:40.545 because they're gonna get to the plot. 1136 00:54:41.005 --> 00:54:44.345 Yes. Uh, and then they're in a position 1137 00:54:44.345 --> 00:54:45.465 to do one-on-one work. 1138 00:54:45.845 --> 00:54:49.365 Mm-hmm. Much more so than as a teacher 1139 00:54:49.395 --> 00:54:51.125 with a classroom of, of students. 1140 00:54:51.745 --> 00:54:55.445 Uh, and it's amazing how 1141 00:54:55.995 --> 00:55:00.965 effective it is as long as the child believes that the, that 1142 00:55:01.035 --> 00:55:03.525 that adult who's asking the questions is actually paying 1143 00:55:03.525 --> 00:55:05.605 attention to them and not reading the paper. 1144 00:55:05.625 --> 00:55:07.805 And I'm say going, why, uh, why, 1145 00:55:08.865 --> 00:55:10.245 but but actually paying attention. 1146 00:55:10.345 --> 00:55:14.445 So it, but parents are in a great position to do that. 1147 00:55:15.185 --> 00:55:19.695 Yes. If they can get away from their own training often, 1148 00:55:20.075 --> 00:55:23.455 you know, their, the way they were taught back 1149 00:55:24.245 --> 00:55:26.565 whenever they went to school and, and, 1150 00:55:26.785 --> 00:55:28.445 and get away from thinking in plot 1151 00:55:28.585 --> 00:55:30.325 and think in terms of character. 1152 00:55:30.865 --> 00:55:32.485 Yes. Yeah. It's interesting actually. 1153 00:55:32.565 --> 00:55:34.245 'cause what you're saying is linking a little bit with some 1154 00:55:34.245 --> 00:55:37.245 of parenting books I've been reading, um, 1155 00:55:37.775 --> 00:55:41.285 where they talk about, as a parent, I think one 1156 00:55:41.285 --> 00:55:43.485 of the things you automatically want to do is 1157 00:55:43.485 --> 00:55:44.765 to solve your child's problem. 1158 00:55:45.705 --> 00:55:47.365 And if a child comes to you 1159 00:55:47.365 --> 00:55:49.725 and says, you know, somebody's hurt my feelings, 1160 00:55:49.725 --> 00:55:52.445 or somebody's hurt me or hit me, or I don't like this, 1161 00:55:52.505 --> 00:55:54.205 or, your immediate thing is 1162 00:55:54.205 --> 00:55:56.725 to give them a solution rather than to dig down 1163 00:55:56.725 --> 00:55:58.645 and ask them those questions about the situation. 1164 00:55:58.645 --> 00:55:59.835 Right. And, 1165 00:56:00.135 --> 00:56:03.675 and I think often when you do that, when you say like, 1166 00:56:03.735 --> 00:56:04.835 why and what happened? 1167 00:56:04.895 --> 00:56:08.315 And tell me more. And, you know, I can see that, you know, 1168 00:56:08.315 --> 00:56:09.675 that might make you feel a certain way. 1169 00:56:09.675 --> 00:56:13.275 And what then those things lead to children come up 1170 00:56:13.275 --> 00:56:14.835 with their own ideas and their own solutions 1171 00:56:14.855 --> 00:56:18.395 and their own stories, which is, which is just a, 1172 00:56:18.555 --> 00:56:20.435 a great tool for life ab 1173 00:56:21.355 --> 00:56:22.635 Absolutely. Absolutely. 1174 00:56:23.225 --> 00:56:25.125 And conversation. Yeah. It, it's true. 1175 00:56:25.225 --> 00:56:27.365 And, and so many parents feel like that's their job. 1176 00:56:27.365 --> 00:56:29.565 They're supposed to, they're supposed to solve problems. 1177 00:56:29.865 --> 00:56:32.205 Yes. Uh, you know, and say, okay, here's the answer. 1178 00:56:32.465 --> 00:56:33.925 Here's the answer. Do this. 1179 00:56:34.065 --> 00:56:36.485 Um, and, and, 1180 00:56:36.485 --> 00:56:39.775 and so often the best answer is 1181 00:56:41.515 --> 00:56:43.495 not in the form of an answer, 1182 00:56:43.555 --> 00:56:48.175 but at the best answer is to, to let the child explore 1183 00:56:48.315 --> 00:56:49.535 how they, you know, their, 1184 00:56:49.665 --> 00:56:51.615 their own their own answer anyway. 1185 00:56:51.685 --> 00:56:55.015 Yeah. I agree with you completely. That's true. Yeah. 1186 00:56:55.155 --> 00:56:59.055 No, it's great. Um, just to kind of finish off, I know one 1187 00:56:59.055 --> 00:57:00.975 of the things that kind of comes out through your books 1188 00:57:00.975 --> 00:57:02.695 and your writing and the knowledge that you have 1189 00:57:03.315 --> 00:57:05.695 is very much about the impact of story 1190 00:57:05.695 --> 00:57:10.375 and why it is such a massive tool for everything. 1191 00:57:10.735 --> 00:57:13.175 I mean, for learning and development, for change. Yeah. 1192 00:57:13.435 --> 00:57:16.415 For, I mean, I dunno, if you just wanna, I, 1193 00:57:16.485 --> 00:57:20.295 this is massive question just in terms for the teachers 1194 00:57:20.295 --> 00:57:22.815 and that people are listening, like, just, uh, 1195 00:57:23.155 --> 00:57:25.375 why should we do storytelling with children? 1196 00:57:25.645 --> 00:57:26.775 What, why is it important? 1197 00:57:26.805 --> 00:57:28.975 What is the, what is the change 1198 00:57:29.125 --> 00:57:30.495 that happens when we do this? 1199 00:57:31.885 --> 00:57:36.215 Alright. Uh, so question is why do storytelling? 1200 00:57:37.055 --> 00:57:38.495 I, I know in many schools 1201 00:57:38.715 --> 00:57:42.625 and school districts, storytelling is sort 1202 00:57:42.625 --> 00:57:43.745 of held out as a carrot. 1203 00:57:44.245 --> 00:57:46.505 If you're really good and do all your work today, at the end 1204 00:57:46.505 --> 00:57:48.145 of the day, I'll tell you a story, 1205 00:57:48.855 --> 00:57:49.865 it's the other way around. 1206 00:57:50.325 --> 00:57:54.385 Mm-hmm. Because we can now 1207 00:57:55.525 --> 00:57:59.575 very concretely demonstrate that our brains 1208 00:58:00.115 --> 00:58:02.255 are hardwired to make sense of the world. 1209 00:58:02.995 --> 00:58:07.015 And, and that includes math and science 1210 00:58:07.475 --> 00:58:11.175 and, um, every topic, 1211 00:58:12.105 --> 00:58:14.975 every subject that there is in story terms, 1212 00:58:15.995 --> 00:58:19.255 the more we initially work on the story part, 1213 00:58:19.675 --> 00:58:22.575 the more we are literally working on 1214 00:58:22.675 --> 00:58:27.015 and developing students' ability to tackle 1215 00:58:27.395 --> 00:58:31.175 and master every aspect of learning. 1216 00:58:32.845 --> 00:58:35.795 Story isn't a separate topic. 1217 00:58:36.095 --> 00:58:40.675 It is at the heart and soul of all human learning. 1218 00:58:41.425 --> 00:58:44.875 It's the way we structure and make sense out of information. 1219 00:58:45.295 --> 00:58:48.115 Mm-hmm. So understand that first, 1220 00:58:48.115 --> 00:58:51.945 and it facilitates whatever direction 1221 00:58:51.945 --> 00:58:53.625 that child wants to go in, in life. 1222 00:58:54.375 --> 00:58:59.025 It's amazing how central story, those elements of story. 1223 00:58:59.725 --> 00:59:03.865 And, and, and that cognitive conscious story thinking is 1224 00:59:04.765 --> 00:59:08.105 to the way that the human brain operates. 1225 00:59:09.885 --> 00:59:14.185 It seems to me that that raises it up 1226 00:59:14.605 --> 00:59:19.175 to a very central element and, and, 1227 00:59:19.195 --> 00:59:23.285 and a central pillar, an underpinning of all education. 1228 00:59:24.275 --> 00:59:26.765 Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that makes me think 1229 00:59:26.785 --> 00:59:29.245 as well, Kendall, is that, 1230 00:59:30.195 --> 00:59:32.725 that I know my childhood is very different from a lot 1231 00:59:32.725 --> 00:59:33.885 of children nowadays. 1232 00:59:34.465 --> 00:59:39.285 And I think that storytelling, uh, maybe is 1233 00:59:40.075 --> 00:59:41.685 kind of eked out a little bit sometimes 1234 00:59:41.745 --> 00:59:43.965 by things like screen time children not being able 1235 00:59:43.965 --> 00:59:45.525 to play out as much as they used to. 1236 00:59:46.225 --> 00:59:47.965 Um, I mean, I was always playing out on the street, 1237 00:59:47.965 --> 00:59:49.285 making up stories, building 1238 00:59:49.285 --> 00:59:50.925 things, doing things with my friends. Yep, 1239 00:59:51.105 --> 00:59:52.105 Yep. Like play 1240 00:59:52.105 --> 00:59:53.725 out in the streets anymore. And the same way. 1241 00:59:53.785 --> 00:59:56.525 And, and obviously there's childhood is 1242 00:59:56.525 --> 00:59:57.645 quite different nowadays. 1243 00:59:58.405 --> 01:00:00.445 I know that in my childhood, I had, 1244 01:00:00.665 --> 01:00:02.325 my mom was a great storyteller 1245 01:00:02.465 --> 01:00:03.765 and it was a huge thing for, 1246 01:00:03.765 --> 01:00:05.365 she was always making up stories in the car 1247 01:00:05.425 --> 01:00:06.565 and digging holes on the beach 1248 01:00:07.025 --> 01:00:09.685 and taking it into places for sand fair to live. 1249 01:00:09.745 --> 01:00:11.765 And there was always stories from my mum, 1250 01:00:11.785 --> 01:00:14.525 but then there was a huge part of my life 1251 01:00:14.525 --> 01:00:16.125 that was making stories with my friends. 1252 01:00:17.225 --> 01:00:21.445 So, so I think as practitioners in, in schools, I think, 1253 01:00:22.005 --> 01:00:24.685 I think there's an importance for us to keep that going 1254 01:00:24.745 --> 01:00:27.045 and to give that a place in, in school, 1255 01:00:27.745 --> 01:00:29.485 If you want your child to, to learn 1256 01:00:29.505 --> 01:00:32.495 to run, what do they have to do? 1257 01:00:32.495 --> 01:00:35.135 They have to run. If you want your child 1258 01:00:35.795 --> 01:00:39.295 to do something physical, you know, of course you say, well, 1259 01:00:39.295 --> 01:00:40.735 of course you gotta go do it. 1260 01:00:42.525 --> 01:00:46.545 To make, if story is so central to the human brain 1261 01:00:46.565 --> 01:00:51.225 and the human thinking, If you want a 1262 01:00:52.085 --> 01:00:55.105 new human being to be able to think 1263 01:00:55.525 --> 01:00:58.865 and function, they need to exercise 1264 01:00:59.015 --> 01:01:01.825 that most fundamental element 1265 01:01:02.325 --> 01:01:05.385 of their mental processing story. 1266 01:01:06.565 --> 01:01:08.185 How do you do it? You tell stories, 1267 01:01:08.205 --> 01:01:10.225 you share stories, model stories. 1268 01:01:10.645 --> 01:01:13.665 So they gotta get it somewhere. Yes. 1269 01:01:14.455 --> 01:01:18.185 It's not that their brains won't still work on story, it's 1270 01:01:18.185 --> 01:01:21.225 that they won't be cognitively consciously in control 1271 01:01:21.225 --> 01:01:22.825 of those stories, uh, 1272 01:01:23.255 --> 01:01:27.865 because they'll be formed subconsciously and automatically. 1273 01:01:28.405 --> 01:01:32.065 And because they haven't developed that awareness of 1274 01:01:32.675 --> 01:01:34.105 those elements and, 1275 01:01:34.245 --> 01:01:38.015 and of the, the structural parts of story, um, 1276 01:01:38.685 --> 01:01:43.015 they'll be subject to the, the sort of the whims of 1277 01:01:43.015 --> 01:01:44.095 that subconscious story. 1278 01:01:46.785 --> 01:01:48.275 Yeah. Yeah. It's gotta come somewhere. 1279 01:01:48.785 --> 01:01:50.075 It's gotta be developed somewhere. 1280 01:01:50.455 --> 01:01:52.795 It, it, it is essential 1281 01:01:53.535 --> 01:01:56.395 for a human being if they're going to be a successful, 1282 01:01:56.635 --> 01:01:59.355 functioning human being to understand at some level, 1283 01:02:00.365 --> 01:02:02.335 consciously those story elements. 1284 01:02:03.855 --> 01:02:08.345 Um, and it's not something 1285 01:02:08.345 --> 01:02:09.745 that can be overdone. 1286 01:02:10.605 --> 01:02:14.625 Yes. It's not you, you know, you, you worry about, well, 1287 01:02:14.625 --> 01:02:15.825 you gotta be, you gotta drink 1288 01:02:15.825 --> 01:02:17.265 water, so drink a lot of water. 1289 01:02:17.495 --> 01:02:18.785 Well, there, there's a limit to it. 1290 01:02:18.805 --> 01:02:20.845 You, you can overdo it and drink too much water. 1291 01:02:21.465 --> 01:02:23.005 Uh, you can overdo anything. 1292 01:02:23.445 --> 01:02:27.365 I, I have yet to see any human being who overdid stories. 1293 01:02:28.425 --> 01:02:33.405 Yes. So we're, but it's very prevalent to see groups that, 1294 01:02:33.595 --> 01:02:38.245 that underdeveloped, uh, and we're underexposed to story 1295 01:02:38.385 --> 01:02:40.245 and, and look at the negative impact of 1296 01:02:40.245 --> 01:02:41.725 that on, on their lives. 1297 01:02:42.395 --> 01:02:45.285 Yeah, that's true. Um, brilliant Cavin, right? 1298 01:02:45.285 --> 01:02:46.725 It's come up to the, uh, Kendall, 1299 01:02:46.735 --> 01:02:48.605 sorry it is come up to the end of time now. 1300 01:02:49.065 --> 01:02:51.205 Um, but, but a massive thank you. 1301 01:02:51.525 --> 01:02:53.565 A massive thank you for kind of coming and talking to us. 1302 01:02:53.985 --> 01:02:56.525 Oh, my pleasure. Yeah. It's been, it's been great. 1303 01:02:56.525 --> 01:02:58.565 There's been some fantastic messages there for people. 1304 01:02:58.905 --> 01:03:00.965 Is there anything you'd like to leave everybody with? 1305 01:03:02.985 --> 01:03:04.225 I ought to do it with a story. 1306 01:03:04.765 --> 01:03:09.325 Um, and yet I hadn't, uh, I hadn't really, 1307 01:03:09.665 --> 01:03:12.505 um, your, 1308 01:03:14.515 --> 01:03:16.995 I think if I was gonna leave people with a thought, it, 1309 01:03:17.055 --> 01:03:21.825 it is this, you are a storyteller. 1310 01:03:22.925 --> 01:03:25.945 Why do we know that? Because you're a human being 1311 01:03:25.945 --> 01:03:26.945 and you're still breathing. 1312 01:03:28.805 --> 01:03:32.025 And that's, so the question isn't, are you a storyteller? 1313 01:03:32.905 --> 01:03:35.925 The only question is, um, 1314 01:03:37.965 --> 01:03:42.595 how comfortable are you 1315 01:03:42.705 --> 01:03:44.275 consciously controlling the stories? 1316 01:03:45.055 --> 01:03:48.475 The idea of these story elements is to give you 1317 01:03:49.035 --> 01:03:51.715 concrete tools that are really simple to use, 1318 01:03:52.225 --> 01:03:56.435 that let your natural storytelling come out. 1319 01:03:57.085 --> 01:04:00.545 Mm-hmm. Um, celebrate the fact that you are a storyteller 1320 01:04:00.655 --> 01:04:03.465 because you, you are so are all 1321 01:04:03.465 --> 01:04:04.505 of the students you work with. 1322 01:04:06.225 --> 01:04:10.245 And the idea of working in a, in a classroom setting 1323 01:04:10.355 --> 01:04:13.325 with students on story is to give them 1324 01:04:14.155 --> 01:04:16.765 some initial simple tools 1325 01:04:18.335 --> 01:04:20.555 to help them express the stories 1326 01:04:20.555 --> 01:04:21.875 that naturally want to come out. 1327 01:04:22.435 --> 01:04:25.295 'cause they automatically do. Mm-hmm. 1328 01:04:25.835 --> 01:04:29.575 And you'll find that, uh, it makes 1329 01:04:29.875 --> 01:04:33.095 for an amazing, an amazing experience both for them 1330 01:04:33.155 --> 01:04:36.335 and most likely for you along the way. 1331 01:04:37.045 --> 01:04:39.705 Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Yeah. Big thank you, Kendall. 1332 01:04:39.935 --> 01:04:41.145 It's been really good talking 1333 01:04:41.145 --> 01:04:42.465 to you, so I really enjoyed it. 1334 01:04:42.605 --> 01:04:44.185 And to you. And to you. 1335 01:04:44.285 --> 01:04:45.865 And good luck with all your stories. 1336 01:04:46.415 --> 01:04:48.505 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. 1337 01:04:48.515 --> 01:04:50.065 We're kind of getting it out there, 1338 01:04:50.175 --> 01:04:52.425 getting the stories into schools, so, yeah. 1339 01:04:52.575 --> 01:04:55.465 Good. Yeah. So yeah. Lovely to talk to you.