WEBVTT - This file was automatically generated by VIMEO. Please email info@talestoolkit.com to report problems. I'm really excited to have Monet back with us tonight. Um, this is Monet's second webinar with us now. Um, and I'm a huge fan of Monet's work. Um, not only is she an awards winning author, um, but she's a fantastic trainer. She's putting together a brilliant conference and she's gonna chat a little bit about that later. Um, which I'm gonna be there at, um, which I'm really excited about. Yay. Um, also, also, she's winner of the nursery management today, top five Inspirational People in Childcare Award. Um, and she does lots of work in terms of training and, um, you've created like the cash, um, training, which you're going to talk about a little bit. Yeah. Uh, well, yeah, the cash one is the award-winning existing one, which I'm really proud of. And then I've got the new one, which is all about self-regulation in early years. Brilliant. So, um, so Monet is gonna be chatting with us today about self-regulation. Um, and we decided that the best way to do it was that we were gonna wing it a little bit and just chat. And Renee's got so much information and fantastic stuff in her head. She's been writing a PhD, um, on self-regulation. Um, so we're just today gonna have a chat, but I think it's really a great opportunity for the people that are attending to be able to ask questions. So there'll be lots of opportunity for us to talk. And I've got my pen, so I'm gonna be jotting down all the questions that you ask as you go along. Um, so I've got some questions for Monet to get going, and then what we'll do is as we go along, we type things out and I'll bring them back them Monnet and she can talk through them at the end. So does that sound okay? But yeah, so no, I think it, I think it's gonna be great today. I know, I don't at all. It's all good. It's gonna be a little bit winging it today, but, but there's lots of information, so I think it'll be great. Yeah. So would you like to start by just kind of chatting through what self-regulation is, because I think everyone has different interpretations of it and different explanations, and would you like to tell us what your explanation of it is? Yeah, I'm going to start briefly by saying what it isn't. Yes. What it isn't is what the EYFS lgs are down as. And just a couple of them, for example, is going to the toilet and listening to the teacher in part That's okay. And then making healthy food choices. And I think they've got 11 LGS down. And when I read, you know, when people are first telling me, ah, self-regulation is an ELG, you must be so chuffed. You know, and I'm like, I was like, Ooh, is it, let's have a look. And I was like, my heart sank. I thought, how could you, with the plethora of information around get it so wrong, wrong for our workforce and therefore our children? What I wanted to see an answer to your question was, self regulation is one's ability to manage, as I keep saying, those big overwhelming feelings like fear, anger, it's being able to exercise, uh, self-control at times. It's being able to say, I'm focusing on this, I'm gonna ignore that. Which are big things for children, you know, it is all that stuff about, you know, being able to concentrate, delay gratification, curb impulsive behavior, you know, problem solving skills, which is critical to being creative. And, and these are attributes that are essential across the life trajectory. And they don't happen within a child by osmosis. And they certainly won't happen as a result of these awful self-regulation, early learning goals that are propo proposed for September. And I know that another consultation is going to happen. I also know one of the individuals, a fantastically highly regarded academic who was on the consultation panel initially, and I said, look, please, I'm developing this program because program, I'm really miffed at the disrespect that has again, been bespoke on our workforce in trying to, I don't know what they're, I do know what they're trying to achieve. It's another box ticking exercise. You know, they've reduced it and contorted it into something that it's not. And I find that offensive because then how on earth are, are practitioners supposed to instill these qualities in children when they've got it wrong at the outset? What, what, what logic are you applying? I do not know. So now we're going to have earliest practitioners with the best one in the world going, right, I've got my EI fest, right? Yet can go to the toilet. Yeah, okay. Can sit down. And it's like, no, I found that really, like I said, disrespectful to them and the children because we're failing to equip children. Like I picture it and I mentioned it in my program, an emotional toolkit. And we have to fill it with resilience, self respect, respect for others, interpersonal skills, pro-social skills and self-regulation is multifaceted. You can't squish it into 11 tick box attributes. And that, you know, to have it down as that, you know, I I just find it quite appalling, really. And going back to my point, like I told you, I would digress. 'cause I offer a lot. I know someone who was on the, uh, consultation panel and I said, look, please check what I've got written down because I don't want to disservice the workforce. I'm just trying to help, you know, widen the information so that they are better equipped to therefore equip children. And I said, just, is it, is it rubbish? Tell me what's changed. He said, no, you are spot on. I sat there and I said these things and everything I said was ignored. Mm-Hmm. And this is why we've ended up with those ELGs, self-regulation. You know, like, you know, shanka would have it down as five domains. You've got to focus on, on the cognitive elements, the social elements, and the emotional. I don't want to be, you know, uh, you know, dismissed again, because our minne only focuses on the emotional aspect of self reg. I'm not going to apologize for that. All it blacked out, um, because I think it's an, it's the area that's most often overlooked, Kate, because emotional skills, they're soft skills. They're not quantifiable, they're not easily, you know, measured. So they're soft skills. And I'm saying, you know what? Don't be embarrassed about putting the emotional element of self at the top of the tree. I'm sick and tired of it being down there. And then we've got, which white paper was I reading earlier on, um, about mental health in schools? And another colleague said, min, look, well chuffed with this. And I read it like word for word for word. You know, page 18, page 12, page 24, you're still talking about behavior management. You're still referencing exclusion and where it's appropriate. It's never appropriate. You see, if you have a whole school or setting approach to understanding behavior, then we won't need behavior management. Because you know why? You would've been able to support children to express their feelings, to talk about those emotions, to name them, as Dan Seager says, naming it to tame it. We know Kate, when we are really stressed or frustrated and someone takes the time to say, tell me about it. How did it make you feel? Mm-Hmm. What what's it like for you? How, how are you feeling now? What were your four children that respect, that time, that space, all part of that self-regulation, co-regulating it, which is another thing I wanna come on you. I, it never ceases to amaze me how children, like, wow, someone's listening to me. You mean I can tell you how I feel and I'm not gonna get told off Mm-Hmm. I'm not gonna be sent to their head teacher. Well, you know what? He really upset me when he said so and so, or when they took that from me and I wasn't allowed to because that's what life is for a child. You know, like you were talking about school readiness, everyone, what's school readiness mean for children? It's as simple as, well, I know where the toilets are, you know, will I be able to make friends? Not, well, it's about all these higher order thinking skills. Please. They have to come after, they have to come once a child feels safe and secure. I don't wanna go into that downstairs, upstairs, brain information again. But it's basic. The brain and body are inextricably linked. If we don't have our children feeling safe, comfortable, secure with you, then how on earth are they expected to achieve what? By being scared? No. By being pressured. No. But this is what education, especially in the early years is becoming Mm-Hmm. Baseline assessments at four or five. What on earth are you doing? Mm-Hmm. We've got children self-harming from three years out, biting themselves, hurting themselves, you know, with scissors. I'm not been speaking to professionals and I was a gog, I was so distressed at what I was hearing. And this self-harming behavior is happening earlier and earlier. So pray, tell who are you doing those baseline assessments for? Is it for the good of children? No. Isn't they have to be scrapped on? And I'm going off on one and I'll stop, but I hope you've understood what self-regulation is. And with regard to that as well, I want to come back to the point about co-regulating to self-regulate. And that means where we model what we would expect a child to be behaving like in order to contain those big emotions and Okay. To learn, to concentrate, to know what to ignore in order to learn effectively. But Kate, again, there hasn't been any guidance in these self reg ELGs Mm-Hmm. So practitioners are taking that as given, right? Because the EYFS is gospel and it isn't, it shouldn't be. And I wanna read out a message to you in a minute. There is no workforce qualifications, nothing with this mandatory bit of info, which is erroneous. Where are you supporting our staff to do it correctly? Nothing. Yeah. And I just as I was logging on to how to this webinar, and I just want to share with you, um, a message from an education consultant. And first I thought she was criticizing when I was like, oh, you know what, min take it on board. Fair point. And I read it again and I was like, oh, she's actually acknowledging what I said. And she said, um, where is it? Let me have a look. She said, I read your post Mina about self-regulation. I was struck when you talk about the missed opportunity for a better EYF at a time when both EYFS and offset are being reviewed, it should be a chance to look at, um, how, you know, the missed opportunities we've got for providing, um, for supporting children's development and moving away from measuring by blunt assessment results. And that spoke volumes to me. I'm like, my goodness, we are getting it as a collective, but what will it take for it to resonate in those upper echelons with the DFE and Ted who are adamant on getting it wrong, in my opinion, for their own gains? Mm-Hmm. They are on some other trajectory, you know, in terms of the ideologies they're, they're following and how they're funneling it down to early years and, and it is to change, in my opinion. Mm-Hmm. Um, Monet, if you, um, obviously like in terms of the statements that they've got there at the minute that we're not agreeing with what they've got down, but what would you put in there? So if you had to put in some early learning goals, and we're going off on a bit of a tangent, um, what would you put in there for practitioners to look at? What do you think should be there If they just even the most basic tenets of self reg being able to express feelings, being able to talk through complex emotions and Yeah. Part of it is being able to focus and to concentrate and to be creative problem solvers. But all of this, all these terms are not in there. So bringing it back to the child psychological world and how they can manage themselves in this scary world, that would've made me happy. Being able, like I said, you know, expressing our emotions and telling others how we feel and, and behaving pro socially. These are more important for a child and to a child because they're more concerned with, well, that child like me. Am I going to make friends? Well, well, what are we giving to children to equip them to go on and make friends and behave pro socially, not just, well, you can't behave pro socially, so you are going to be reprimanded. So putting it back on the child's emotional wellbeing, what you would expect for your child. Well, how are they being nurtured? How are they being encouraged to work through feelings of anger and fear and anxiety? This is a major, major issue in our youngest children. How do they articulate anxiety? It goes am missile, you know, all too often, you know, my daughter describes it as I, I've got a, I've got my, my, my stomach feels sick and I feel like headed and, and her face just go mono. You know, she can't engage. That's how I felt as a child. I couldn't engage, I couldn't step out of myself. I didn't know what was going on around me. And I look at so many children like that today, who I know would be because they are labeled, oh, that so and so, and she's got, you know, trouble, you know, focusing. It's not, you know, a bit airy fairy away with the fairies like iCal. I'm thinking, have you bothered to dig a bit deeper with that child? How do you know there isn't something going on at home that is making that child really restless? Have they slept the night before? Were they witnessing mom and dad, you know, having arguments, you know, all that domestic turbulence that a lot of children go through. So it's about how are we making them feel emotionally safe and are those goals reflective of that? And I would say at the moment, those goals are not reflective of a child's psychological world or their emotional world. Not at all. They've made it into something that's easy Yes. To, to see if we can see it easily. We can measure it easily. And, and it shouldn't be about that because emotions are far too nuanced and complex to be reduced to that. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Um, you've been touching on kind of, uh, the way different children come in and maybe what's going on for them home and the way that affects them in terms of when they come into school. Um, but also in terms of developing those self-regulation kind of key attributes in early years. What's the importance of that moving forward in terms of school and life and school readiness and all of those things that are gonna set children up moving forward? Yeah, I know it's not good to talk about your personal experiences, but I will just to articulate it in, in a, in a really easy way. Um, yeah. I was one of those children that had all of that domestic violence and all of that stuff going on. I couldn't label it because to me it was the norm, Kate. So anyone who had a mom and a dad who got on to me, still, it makes my skin. I'm like, that's a bit weird. Yeah. Not only that, it, it led me to be able to not be able to manage my feelings at all on any level. Yeah. So we have a running joke, my, my partner and I in that, it's funny how you talk about self-regulation, but you can't do it yourself. Now, many people tuning will go, oh my God, I'm not listening to her. Then who, who is she to tell me about ululation? She can't do it. And I'm hoping that people will understand that it's something that begins from birth. And you need attuned adults with a healthy attachment to their children to support the self reg to kick in. So when a baby's crying, is that baby soothed straight away? Have they got a soft tone? Have they the eyes that are loving, have they got the eye contact? They've got the body to body warmth, the heart rate, you know, being soothed by mum, being present emotionally, physically, or is there a lot of shouting? Are there adults behaving in ways that are not healthy as blueprints? Mum and dad did it. So that must be right, because that's what I had, for example. So I didn't have any rational, logical conversations. Everything was out for everyone to see, including me as a child. And I witnessed things that no child should be witnessing, but it stuck with me. So while I'm trying to work through it, you are asking me, well, has it relevant to school and life? Absolutely essential. Mm-Hmm. A person who cannot self-regulate, will fail to thrive on every level. Yeah. They will not be able to stick it at school because they are the children that are fidgety that can't focus, that are, you know, really up. Because that brain and body, for example, might be in fight or flight mode pretty much constantly. And that is physiologically and mentally draining and highly toxic for that person across the life trajectory. This is how we get adult mental health issues, depression, OCD, anxiety. And they're very easy to roll off the tongue. But for someone who experiences these feelings pretty much regularly, life is crippling life can be really crushing and a struggle for these individuals because they've never been basically given coping skills. They can't open that emotional talking and go, Hmm, I'm feeling I need a bit of resilience at the moment. Oh, I dunno how to, oh, so then what happens? The anxiety kicks in. You start being able to, you start trying to control aspects of your life, say for example, by being obsessive. Mm-Hmm. I know that if I do so and so, so many times in a, in a row, then that will keep me safe. And it borders on the superstitious. Why? Why does someone do this? Because they've never been given or shown those coping mechanisms or through co-regulation as a child or at any point in their life. And I'm, and that was quite, you know, moving and upsetting for me to realize at this age, I'm in my thirties and you think, my goodness, you can go through that trajectory, bumbling and fumbling from one catastrophe, catastrophe to the next. Because you, you don't know. You don't know how to cope with life. And that's why I say in all the work I do, self-regulation is the greatest gift we can give to children. It will enable them to learn, therefore to succeed academically, not to fall off and be written off and then end up in the criminal sys, you know, the criminal cycle. That is often the case with Tina. Well, they did care about me. They wrote me off at school. I didn't manage at this. I couldn't, I couldn't stick a, you know, stick a job. And that's all self-regulation. It's maintaining friendships, relationships, knowing how to navigate yourself through these really difficult terrains. And if you're not shown how to as a child, what hope have you got as an adult? Yeah. Oh, that person can't keep a boyfriend or girlfriend. Oh, they're always in conflict with someone. And it all comes back to the same thing. It's all about self-regulating your emotional responses and consequent behavior to the stressors in the environment. Yeah, yeah. It's true. Because I think when you think about school and what we want to use it for with children, you want to set children to be happy. And if you're thinking about the government and the DFE and those kind of things, what do they want? Yeah. They wanna set up paddles that will be great in society. It's not about the box. No, no. But they would have it as box ticking and exam passing. Mm-Hmm. I, I wasn't great at school, but school was my haven. So I loved it. I was in awe of all my teachers and I was like, oh my God, I can't wait for school because I was safe and I had role models, I had adults, but I had behaving as they should have been. Right. But when you don't have that as a child, you, you, you just kind of, it's not your, it's just by chance whether you end up somewhere safe or not. And I don't know what it was in me that made me be okay, kind of. I'm still, like I said, when crap hits the fan, I find it really difficult. And it's only now I'm learning about mind, genuinely about mindfulness, breathing techniques and taking myself off somewhere else and, and trying to regulate myself. Bring myself back to a safe psychological state so I can get on with the business of learning and educating others. And that's why it's something so fundamentally ingrained in me and important to me. Because if we can be that one person in the setting that says, you know what, not only am I here for you, and I'll help you to self-regulate these feelings, but tests are not the be all and end all. But they are having our practitioners believe that it is, that you, your only purpose as an adult in that setting is to train these beautiful little minds into becoming test ready. Yeah. How rude and myopic and offensive is that I can't stand it. And I see my daughter in this sausage factory of an education system, and I despair. I say it all the time, you know, they've got phonics tests, spelling tests, reading tests, times tables, tests come up four, five years old. They've done a whole day at school. They come home knackered. I want her to play to chill on the sofa with me. Yes. To watch tv. 'cause I love watching TV with her because they've been at it all day long. Man, take your foot off the pedal, like, relax a little bit. And I, you know, but we're not saying that to children. We're saying, come on, you have to be test ready. I've got children from five years old that, you know, they're in extra maths tuition, extra English literacy tuition. Mm-Hmm. What happened to real life conversations? Mm-Hmm. What happens to storytelling, you know, to reading books. So I'm gonna, I just think like, it's just, it's atrocious, man. I just look at it and I think you are training them up for a world which we hear often, they're not ready to enter because we don't know what it will look like. Mm-Hmm. And I just think you, you have to really take a reality check and go Look at all our children. It's all very well putting them in the statistics. We've got, you know, 720,000 children with mental health issues. Yeah. Come on now. Baseline assessments on their way. Who have you done? How well have you done in this test? And, and I'm like, it's, you know, it just doesn't tally. Yeah. What are you doing to address the mental health issues in our infants? Infants, please. So when they're 8, 10, 15, and you've got all that massive brain growth happening, it's all aligned to that negative stimuli. And this is why we have so many then adults with mental health issues because not only wasn't it supported a young age, it's become ingrained and enforced and reinforced in our education systems, in our prison systems. And I think we have to strip it right back. Yeah. I wanna, I don't wanna sound like a hippie here, but I wanna see the ey fest not so rigid and dull and monotonous and basic. Put it in that, you know, control of practitioners. What would they wanna see for their children and their routine? I have so many practitioners say, min, I agree with what you're saying, but you know what, there's no room in my roots. We don't have that flexibility. Why not? Leadership says why Osted comes in and it's not working. Then what is the problem with that? Mm-Hmm. You know, I don't want to be one of those that's, oh yeah. Me always criticizes osted. But until they do something that's meaningful to children, then I'm going to continue to air my opinions, which tend to be a bit on the negative side because it isn't working for too many children. And these are the children who are more often than not, sensory integration issues, trauma, adverse childhood experiences, the whole gamut. They're the ones that struggle. So you are telling me in a mental health white paper for schools that, you know what, regardless if there is a case to exclude, it needs to be the case. No. Then you are still talking rubbish. In my opinion, there has to be a holistic approach to carrying and containing these children emotionally and psychologically. Until that happens, these children will keep being failed. Mm-Hmm. It's not working for them. It's a fit in or off, you know, approach. And, and it's, it's just not appropriate. It's not, it's not good. No, I agree. Um, one of the questions that's popped up here, um, Sarah asked, um, do you disagree with babies being left to cry in a controlled Way? Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All the time. I can't stand it. No. They should not be left to cry. I No, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna swear, just know they cannot be left to cry. Because when we're talking about self-regulation, I mentioned it earlier on, a baby learns from that tender age whether the world is safe, whether the adults can be trusted, or whether the world is unsafe. And the adults must not be trusted. That happens between birth. And one year we look at Eric Erickson psychosocial stages of development. Right. We know all the evidence is there in abundance. If you shut the door on a baby who's screaming and crying and leave them in the dark to cry it out, my goodness, the impact that has on that baby's brain development is so, so sick. That baby is already being wired for stress. They will learn quickly. I cannot trust you mom or dad or whoever it is, looking after that baby. I have to learn to keep quiet. So when you are there, meanwhile going, huh, I knew it. I knew she'd shut up after a while and it might be 45 minutes, it might be an hour. Thank God she's off to sleep, for example. No, what you've done is that you've distressed that baby to the point where it realizes no one cares about me. There's no point in crying. My voice isn't going to be heard. And very soon these babies learn to remain distant. They become pseudo self-reliant, pseudo independent, which means it's fake. They're just keeping it bottled up inside. I can't show my emotions because I'm gonna get told off. Okay. And many children are this way because of that very reason. And this is where we get poor or disorganized attachments kicking in. So, no, it is never in my humble opinion, okay, to let your or a baby cry. You are there as a caregiver, not, not someone to ignore that baby's needs for interaction and companionship and security. Mm-Hmm. Those can be the adults that are walking on the street broken because of the lack of attention and care and responsiveness in their early childhood. Mm-Hmm. Um, there's a question come up from Lisa. She's asked, what can we do as practitioners to help bring around change, Voice up, stand up for God's sake, stand up and say it's crap. I don't agree with it. I'm not doing it. Just say it. I've never, I dunno how I didn't get kicked out of my jobs. You know, I would never adhere to what was being told. So I wouldn't do it, Kate, if it didn't fit my babies 'cause I was a baby room lead. It wasn't happening. Yeah. You know, and it would be, it would mean also sometimes challenging parents. I don't want him sleeping because otherwise then he'll be up too late for me when I get home, for example, hang on a minute, love the baby's there from 8:00 AM till 6:00 PM and you are not allowing him to nap, for example. I would explain that's not right for the child. It's not working for them because little so and so would be falling asleep with food in his mouth at the dinner table. I'm not doing it. Sack me or go find another nursery. I'm not doing it. So speak to your leadership teams. Do you know what actually I, I don't fully understand these ELGs. Please, can you talk me through it? Please? Can I seek some CPD please? Can we get someone in to talk to us about it? I don't feel confident enough. For example, the self reg ELGs in September, if they do not change into something meaningful practitioners do need to stand up. Say, you know what? I'm not doing it. I can't do it. I don't get the full picture, therefore I'm gonna disservice these children. There's got to be more to it than this. And by the way, someone called Minne mentioned co-regulation. Why isn't that mentioned in the document? Please? Can we get some CPD on that, for example? Mm-Hmm. So basically speak up, speak up for yourself, speak up for the children because you are there for them not to please Offstead, who for me, are quite outmoded in their approach to educating our youngest Mm-Hmm. So yeah. Yeah. It's true. Well, I've, um, I've worked in school and been into a school That's great. Like the leadership is fantastic. Yeah. There Are loads, there are load of brilliant examples of practice. I'm not saying there isn't, but I'm seeing too many practitioners say, I mean, but, but we can't or I'm too scared and I don't want that to be told to me. Yeah. You are too important to our workforce and our children. Yeah, it's true. But this one school I went into, um, they didn't agree with some of the early learning goals and the statements. So they created their own and they assessed the ones that they've created on their own. And when Yeah. An offset came in, they fought the corner and they got outstanding. Yes. This is it. This is literally what I said. I was, uh, giving the keynote at Vanessa Dooley's superb conference on Saturday. And I was saying, you know, if as long as you can explain your rationale, your why Yes. And it works for the children, there really should not be a counter argument to that. Yes. If your counter argument DFE and Sted is data driven, stats driven, outcomes driven, measurable outcomes, then do one. Because if you've got a practitioner practitioner saying, my goodness, this child was really struggling to fit in, really struggling to learn, wasn't getting the best of the, you know, experiences at our setting. So then we did this and now wow, he's thriving, he's engaging, he gets it. He's present. Yeah. There can be nothing said to you to change that practice. Exactly. Like you said, if it doesn't work, do it yourself. Yeah. It's true. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's what's gonna get the outcomes later on that everybody would Of course. Yeah. Completely. It's gotta be, I don't wanna sound like citizen Smith for those of you that get the reference, but, but you know, grassroots, do it from below if it's not coming from the upper echelons that are so rarefied and tend to be elitist and detached from your lived reality with those children. Create something meaningful with integrity and respect for yourselves and it will work. Yeah, it's true. Um, somebody earlier on in the chat, they said knowledge is power. And I think that's really key, and I'm sure you'll probably agree with me that having that information and that research, and this is a big part of what you do in terms of the neuroscience behind things Yep. Is by having that knowledge and that power. Then when you have Ted that comes in, you can say, look, this is the reason why we do this. This is why it works. And we can give you the science and we can give you the research Absolutely. The information behind it. But do you have anything that you can recommend in terms of things people could read or look at that might help them? My my favorite neuroscientist is Dan Sigel. Daniel Sigel, S-I-E-G-E-L. You know, he's booked the whole brain child to me is gold dust. It's so beautifully accessible. It makes sense. Um, I've got practitioners on my my cash endorse program who have used his ideas from his book and have created the brain house, for example, and things what children can manipulate and what places they can go to when they are feeling stressed and they can't self-regulate. And when I read them, Kate, like the, the the case studies, they provide me from the knowledge from this program, for example, or my book or whoever else's book who's written about self reg, I'm so deeply touched because it's not about actually early as practitioners aren't intelligent enough to grapple with this subject knowledge. So leave it to us. Yeah. Said by some neuroscientists, they've grappled with it, they've got it and they've gone, do you know what, this is what it would look like in my setting for my children who have got special educational needs. I've got sensory, you know, integration issues and, and everything else that we struggle with, you know, supporting children. And they've turned it into something beautiful. A lot of the glitter jars now, you know, like, so, you know, I'm having practitioners say, children go and get their glitter jars and when they're stressed they say, can I have my glitter jar shake it, you know, all face to the bottom. And the deep breathing exercises a cozy space where they can go key, note the difference, not time out, for example, or go and isolate yourself. But can I go over here into my cozy space with my glitter jar? I need to be on my own. Absolutely. 'cause that child, I'll take my hat off to them, is recognizing all that self-awareness. I need time away. Can I go and recalibrate and come back when I'm ready? So from the work that I've been doing, a lot of the practitioners are now what I'm, I'm understanding is that they're giving children the responsibility to say, I'm all right or I need help, or can I have this please to help me come back to a safe psychological space. And it's them, it's the practitioners having the dialogues with the children. How are you feeling? What do you need to make me help you feel? Okay again, should we go here? Would you like to do this? Yeah. You know, there's a lot more mindfulness, there's a lot more baby massage with parents as well now because they're realizing we need our parents on board as well. We can do a great job. But if our parents are finding it really difficult to connect with and bond with their children, then it's undone. You know, it's like a lace and it, and it unravels when they get home. So there's a lot of parent workshop supporting, you know, a lot more two-way organic dialogues happening. Less judgment, more support that every step of the way. It's more holistic and yeah. You know, I just think it needs to again, come back to the child's wellbeing before test outcome measures. Because my D Offstead and DFE, if that child is not in a safe place, they won't learn. We are the same. I'm so stressed. Oh, I'm so frustrated. I've got to do this, but I can't get my mind together. Well then how enough do you expect our to cope when they're still going through that massive, you know, window of brain growth and all those synaptic connections are happening or not as a result of the care we give or not. So let's take it back just a step and bring it back to emotional wellbeing. Mm-Hmm. Please, for those academics that have been moaning, I'm not saying self-regulation is only emotional, but it's a key element, then we can allow our children to tap into those higher order thinking skills, those executive functions, which we turn the school readiness. So, Yeah. Um, we've got a question from up here. So, um, Sarah's asked, do you agree that we should go back to children being integrated gradually into year R as they used to be? I think, I think it would make a big difference. I I've had a lot of personal, um, messages, surprisingly from teachers, academics, researchers talking about their children, you know, going to school and they're not quite ready, but they're being forced and, you know, they've got all the legal letters and I'm not fight your corner. I'll help them devise evidence for their 10 page letters as to why it does need to be graduated. And again, child centered as opposed to this is the system either fit in or do one. So I absolutely, I I I would like to see that it won't happen, but it, it's, it's definitely something that I, I see the benefits of. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Um, one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, um, with your new research and the new program that you're developing, um, what are some of the key messages from that? From my self reg program? Yeah. Um, I've tried to keep it short and sweet because again, I didn't want to disservice the workforce and I didn't want to bombard them, but I just wanted them to be able to open their eyes and see and say, ah, there's more to self-regulation than the EYFS would have us believe. And this is a very important point I need to highlight with a pink highlighter, because many of our workforce, they do their utmost and they use this as a guide. Mm-Hmm. But at the, not at the moment, should it happen, it's erroneous at best. So in the program, I have made it into three journeys. I didn't wanna call it lessons and modules because I felt it quite intrinsically for me being a journey for the practitioner. So I've got it as three main journeys, uh, with five paths for each. And it goes from what is self-regulation? What is for co-regulation? What does dysregulation mean? What is co-regulation? 'cause a lot of adults are starting to engage in that when we've got no, uh, energy left ourselves. And then it moves into journey to looking at stress, the types of stress. And for me, the big one, the impact of toxic express, toxic stress on early brain development and how this might manifest in children's behavior and how it can often be misinterpreted for challenging behavior. Like the words tantrum, you know, it should be banned anyway. Then it morphs into the third journey about, well, how can we support self-regulation in the setting? And that's where I talk about the use of really practical, such simple strategies like the glitter jars, the cozy spaces, the safe spaces, the emotional talk kits, the tame it toolkits, like, you know, real objects that each child has that they choose with you to put things that they can chew, smell, manipulate, touch, look at, to bring them back to a sense of equilibrium and ease. Um, so yeah, the third journey for me is where it all comes together. It's right me. Now we've said all this stuff about self-regulation. What, how are you gonna help us put it into action? Yeah. So that's like, you know, the litmus test for me. Then at the end of that third journey, um, they become what I love self-regulation champions like my neuroscience champions. And that's basically right to make it sustainable. You now have the fantastic responsibility of going into your settings, or if you are a child minder to your parents or however your practice looks like, and you start disseminating that knowledge and you start putting it into practice. It might be something like, not that I'm hinting at what they should do. Yes, I am with this point behavior management policies, get rid, change it. Make it a self-regulation policy. What should it look like? Well, this, this, this, and this. Not gonna give that answer away. I'm, but you know, it's all about self-regulation, what it looks like, what we want our children to be able to do in order to learn effectively and behave pro socially. That should be your underpinning behavior management policy, which is now gonna be called a self reg policy, for example. So it's just about, you know, practical ways you can make this knowledge meaningful. And I think, and I've had Vanessa Dooley, uh, awesome, earliest consultant, former offset inspector, give it the thumbs up. She says, I wish I had it when I was a parent. I've got, you know, professor Chris Pascal give it the thumbs up and said it's amazing and, you know, everyone needs to read this. So that at least makes me proud in that I've done something that is pertinent. It's accurate, it's valid. Because in my opinion, again, as they are proposed, the ELGs for self-regulation, they're not fit for purpose. And I don't want to be, you know, censored when I say that because I have had a lot of people go, you, you shouldn't, I'm gonna say it because it's the truth. You know, they, they need to be revised significantly to be of any use. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you've got Vanessa Dooley in the audience here. She's saying you've got an amazing, so you're getting a shout out here. Um, Charlotte was asking as well whether, um, all this information is in your book and kind of which book to get hold of that might have this stuff in it. Um, so the, my latest book, the Early Childhood of Neuroscience, has quite a bit of the information. It isn't just a gratuitous plug, but all of the information is in my new self-regulation, e-learning program, which launches on the, oh, I've forgotten the date. First it see 31st of January. And it's all in there. Everything from beginning to end in all its nuanced beauty. And then with the end point being, this is how it can look in practice. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Um, can I ask you, what would your advice be for teachers that want to develop self-regulation schools and they're going in tomorrow and they've been listening to this night. What's the first thing and what are your top tips that they can do to support children Without saying sign up to my program? Obviously I'm gonna say that I just think do your, do your research. You've got a vision of how you want your children to be and to feel. Then do it. Make notes with your team. Don't be afraid to make changes. It might be that your spaces are too restrictive. It might be that they're spending too much time being expected to sit down activities that are not really engaging or they simply don't have the skills to engage in. Yeah. You need to be able to, you know, have an honest dialogue with yourself and your colleagues. Am I reaching this particular child? Not, oh God, they're really difficult. That child. Bless little Johnny. You know, so and so. Actually take a look in the mirror, do some reflection. What are you failing to address and how can you make, you know, how can you make a change to that? Can you do more to support more, I don't say like off curricular skills, but you know, why isn't it stipulated that mindfulness needs, needs slash must be included? Yoga, so many nurseries now only are beginning to take it up and it's fantastic. But I would love to read a bit of mandatory reg or a white paper going, mindfulness is necessary because it is, is is key to wellbeing. So mix it up a little bit. Get your children to make their glitter jars. Have more sensory experiences. Don't be so stuck into, oh it says this and we have to produce this by, and they have to be able to do this by, for god's sake. They don't have to do anything by a certain time. Each child is beautifully unique. They will get there. Just support them to feel okay and the rest will fall into place as if by magic. But it's not, it's actually you putting your faith and your belief in that child. And I don't wanna patronize but also believing in yourself knowing that actually I know this child better than the DFE or a random inspector who is from a non early background. I know what makes him tick. I know what gets so really excited. I know what ignites their passion for, you know, exploration and learning. When a child is engrossed, that's when we get those executive functions kicking in because that's when we can't prize a child away from their task. Right. We know what it's like. Oh, five more minutes. No, not yet. Not yet. And I don't see enough of that happening. You know, where they're allowed to be truly immersed. That's when you get the focus. That's when you get the, I can delay gratification. That's when you get the, I'm ignoring that child next to me 'cause I'm fully engrossed. That's when we get the, I'm persisting at this. Even that's flipping out. I'm sticking with it because I know that I can't do it. Oh no, it didn't work. I'm gonna try this alternative. And then that's when we get the growth mindset. Yeah, please. Like allow us to be more organic with our provision and take the children's lead for God's sake. We shouldn't be scared of allowing children to lead their own learning. Yeah. That's when we get the immersion, the flow that I often talk about the self-regulation. It all falls into place, but not when you are going 0.1, 0.2. It doesn't happen that way. Not in real life for sure. No, it's true. We've got some great comments coming through here. So we've got, um, Charlotte saying take time to get to know your children. Uh, Vanessa's gonna be open to change. Yes. Yeah, that's it. Saying about being, well still Vanessa better still be that change instigator. That's it. Yeah. Um, we've got Emma who's saying spend time outdoors, which is a great one. Absolutely. Abso, I, I forget the outdoors because it's so alien today. You know, we've got, I think there's a phenomena called nature deficit phenomena because children aren't spending enough time outdoors. Yeah. And you think of the whole gamut of skills and qualities they're missing out on that's also directly aligned to higher rates of obesity, illness, you know, mental health issues because they, they don't have the chance. They're not given that opportunity and it's absolutely tragic. Yeah, it really is. Um, there's another comment as well from Emma and she's saying this information needs to be shared with parents. Um, and a two year older needs to be spent on parenting support in the home. Um, just a quick question for you. In terms of getting this kind of information out to parents, is there things that practitioners can link them with or do you have any ideas about getting them skilled up in terms of self-regulation? They're doing it as a result of some of the, 'cause there's a whole module on it on my existing program actually, and they're saying me now. I just wanted to share with you, we've developed, sorry, we've developed these info, info sheets for parents. We're using 'em as part of a workshop. We do coffee mornings where we talk about alternatives for when they find it difficult to self-regulate. Because if, if we lose our rag, if we flip our lids, then obviously our children, it's like adding flame to the fire. What is that English saying? Flame to the fire? Is it Adding Yes. Adding fuel. Fuel to the fire. Fuel to the fire. There you go. I'm Turkish the English, I'm like min me tune in. So It's really, they take it as long as practitioners have correct knowledge that's layered, they have no problems Kate, and cascading that to their parents in a way that isn't patronizing. But come up a read this, I found it really interesting and it helps me as a practitioner for when I'm, you know, running on empty and they're telling me it works. They've got pa they've got children going to parents saying, can, can we have the glitter jars at home? Can we do this at home? And can I have a, you know, can we have this space at home? And, and parents are taking it on board. Talk about empowerment. So it's a very tangible hands-on thing that you have the power to change as long as you are equipped with the right knowledge. Yes. Yeah, that's true. And I think also we've talked in, um, the chat as well has touched on it, the fact about working with individual children to individual children's needs. Yeah. So I think the way you're gonna act with parents is the same. So if you're talking about a child and their needs and you're discussing that with their parents, you're gonna be doing loads of teaching and sharing Completely. Because as, as with any approach with any child, it shouldn't be a blanket, it shouldn't be a one size fits all because that's when you are gonna start going, oh, well it worked with so and so, but it failed here. Yeah. Well what did you do? What did you do differently? No, I did the same thing. No, yeah, you've missed that whole journey of what brought that child to this point and where their parent or, you know, foster parent might be. So it's, it is about having real honest conversations with each parent that's open and nonjudgmental. You know, the many parents can't, for example, bond with their children and it might be childhood trauma, it might be that they didn't have that experience themselves. So how on earth can we, or who are we to judge that, that parent, because they don't have the skills, it's very difficult and we should be here to support them as well as their children. We need parents on board. Mm-Hmm. Um, we've got a question Down that fear. Yeah, that's alright. We've got a question from Charlotte. Um, and she's asked do ACE scores link with self-regulation? So I don't completely Yeah. Completely information about ACE scores. So adverse childhood experiences, I would urge you, whoever's interested to read the work of ti et out, because it's his research from 1998 with I think nearly 18,000 adults about their childhood experiences and, and those who were subjected to one of eight categorized adverse childhood experiences, abuse, neglect, uh, parental incarceration, you know, domestic abuse, domestic violence, all of these key factors. And you know, what I find fascinating, uh, and I can relate to it directly obviously, is that if there's one buffer in that child's life who can, like Charlotte's asking, help that child to be okay to manage the crap that they're being subjected to that child can have the hope of developing self-regulation. Because when you look at those ACEs, you realize, my goodness, children are bloody resilient. Yeah. A lot of us have experienced all eight and it's a wonder how we are here today. But we are somehow and generally Kate, then you can track it back to one significant adult who helped that child through who held them, be it mentally, intellectually, emotionally, through that pain and carnage who showed them, you know, when you cry, it's okay, we've got words for this feeling. Talk to me. Tell me how you are feeling, being that that one support mechanism can help get them through. So self-regulation, you know, if you've been subjected to such trauma, and as you know, 'cause I've said it so many times, your brain begins to wire and connect in response to this trauma. That means your brain and body are pretty much unable to self-regulate because you are in that constant fight flight or freeze mode. Yeah. So like when I talk about the amygdala, the panic button deep inside the brain being activated, imagine life for a child who is pretty much constantly like that. So because of a result of these ACEs, they can't listen to their thinking part of the brain, that prefrontal cortex because the downstairs emotionally reactive reptilian brain bypasses. It goes ting panic help even when you look around in the nursery and you go, but what's up Sarah? That there's nothing, it's okay, but they're on one. Okay. They can't shut it down. And, and that link has to be understood by parents and practitioners alike so that they can go, actually you don't always have to be in fight or flight, let's do some breathing. Come on, let's, let's try this. Let's, you know, whatever works for, they might need something to hold to stop them biting their lip constantly, for example. And all of these are, are an anxious behaviors, right? So it's about saying, you don't need to do that, come on. Or you might wanna hold their hand and, and rub it gently while you're talking to them or whatever is allowed. Whatever, you know, that they feel comfortable with. But it's, it's finding that common ground. So just to emphasize again, ACEs and self-regulation are inextricably linked. Self-regulation cannot happen because the prefrontal cortex, which you most need in order to self-regulate, has been shut down by the trauma. So it's about building that up again through the techniques that I outlined earlier on. Yeah. Um, I've got a question through which actually links to what you're saying. So Karen has said, um, once a child has flipped their lid, how soon does the brain return to normal state? I know there are different facts going on about this. And again, I'm only going to say from my experience, but neuro, neurologically and physiologically it can take minutes or hours, but really it can be weeks for some individuals following a trauma. Trauma. Okay. So it depends on what the child has experienced or the adult for that matter. Yeah. But don't think that, well, you know, this happened yesterday and I'm over it. Your brain and your body is still processing it. It's like coming down and, and it really takes some great effort on the adults part to help bring that child back to that safe psychological space. And even though you might have done externally insight, it can still be wreaking havoc. Yeah, yeah. Um, we've chatted about self-regulation and, uh, over learning goals and different things. I'm just, uh, wondering if you could chat through, in terms of self-regulation, what kind of things should we be expecting children to do at the age of five? And obviously every child is gonna be very different, but developmentally, if they were on track, what kind of things would we expect to see Being able to get on with their friends? Being able to make friends? Um, I think when we, when they, sorry, get upset about something that you see that their response is, and I think this is quite critical actually, that it isn't disproportionate to what has happened. So if they drop their pen, for example, or pencil, you wouldn't want to see them having, you know, throwing themselves on the floor and screaming in absolute distress. But for some children, that is what they do because they can't self-regulate. They can't tell their amygdala, sh it's all right, I've just dropped my crayon To them. It's like raw catastrophe. And, and you know, for some children this can happen 10, 20, 30 times in a day. So it's just about being able to get on in their lives and being able to navigate their way through frustration. Mm-hmm. Not giving up easily, assisting at something that they like, but you know, not throwing a towel in, ah, I can't do it. And then running off, you know, and going into something else. So it's about sustaining attention in something. It's about being able to show interest and be engaged in a task or activity. And again, coming back to those pro-social skills as well. Being able to talk about their feelings and understand their own feelings. Very important. 'cause a lot of children don't, they've never been given the time or the words to, and critically as well, being able to understand others' feelings. Yep. Yep. That's great. Um, I think we're about coming up to time, Renee, we've been chatting for nearly an hour already, so, yeah. Um, I just thought if you wanna give us, shout out to your conference and chat about that before you go. Ah, yes. Um, I'm, I'm dreaming about it nearly every night. I'm really nervous and excited. Um, uh, yeah, all but sold out. I'm going to visit the venue with, um, Neil Walsher Butterfly print on Tuesday. I'm, I'm really excited. You know, why Kate? Because for me, what it says on a personal and professional note is that it's changing, you know, changes afoot, I think. And, and, and like, someone I think asked earlier on, or you raised it, um, I forgot what you raised Kate. It's gone that my head, what did you say? Something about creating change or something. And we are becoming those change instigators. We are not waiting to be fed crumbs, you know, like pigeons and Trafalgar Square used to be. It's actually, we're gonna go and seek out the knowledge for ourselves. We're gonna make it, make, you know, sense for us as practitioners and parents and for our children ourselves. And what I'm going to do, I, I thought about it in my opening of the conference, is to share the theory that I devised as part of my doctoral research, which I was really chuffed really, because it made me realize, ah, you are not on your own, you are not imagining it. There are real barriers to transferring knowledge from the sciences, academia, whatever you wanna call it, into early years discourse and practice. Mm-Hmm. And linked to this, those voices and those bodies or those organizations that you would believe should be conducive to allowing this knowledge transfer to happen are actually the inhibitors now. I find that deeply perturbing. I will not let it thwart me in my attempts to get neuroscience meaningfully embedded in our qualifications and training. And this is something that I'm going to discuss in the introduction at my conference. And again, you know, I've got a wide range of professionals coming, like, you know, you know, senior police officers, dark theater directors who are, you know, as a result of being in, you know, engaging in my program are devising attachment policies for dancers. You know, I find this amazing that we're, we're transforming this knowledge into something really tangible for ourselves and for the children with whom we work. So, do you know anyone listening who hasn't got a ticket, I'll gladly offer 10% off, you know, if they want to attend. And it's just a celebration of how we are making sense of knowledge from neuroscience in our practice, whether we are child minders, social care workers, police officers, youth workers. We're all in there that day. And I've got a lot of my old students attending. I've got my old lecturers who I dot on, you know, who, who are, you know, saying, well done, forgetting to this point. And, and that's not me on my own. It's everyone going, you know what, some of what you say makes a bit of sense in my daily practice. Can I have a bit more, please, yes, of course. Take it far and wide. And, and that's what the conference is all about. Mm-Hmm. That's great. So I'd just like to say a, a really big thank you, Monet and I, at the beginning of this evening, we were both a bit nervous about winging it, but I think I always know that you're gonna speak from the heart and be really super passionate about talking about I'm Yeah. What's right for children. So even If a lot of it was waffle, I must apologize again. I do get into one and it is all from a sincere, genuine place. So I don't want anyone to sit there and go, oh, she's talking rubbish. No, but, you know, uh, but it, it's out there. Do your reading, read far and wide question everything, just because something comes from the likes of the DFE or offset, it doesn't make it wholly true. Yeah. Or the whole Yeah. Or the whole picture or, or necessarily accurate. So question. Yeah. That's, And take, take your knowledge forward and and share it with your colleagues and parents. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. And I think as well in terms of what you're saying, I think there's a lot of people listen tonight that agree with what you're saying, and it's just that boost, I hope so. To go out and make a difference and make a change. So I really hope so Kate, because that's all I want to do. I just want our, you know, our workforce. It's a mighty workforce. We're at the beginning of those children's lives. And I just think to those, you know, elitist academics who dare tell us what to do and why we are at the crux of it, or we are in that forming foundation. These are the days that matter the most. Not primary, not secondary. And when you look at some of those mental health white papers, and I know I'm gonna shut up in a minute, they start from primary and secondary. I'm thinking therein the issue lies again, why am I not seeing in black and white early years mental health? Where is it? But still you have the audacity to shove in a baseline assessment while negating our children's mental health. I'm not listening to people who, who come out with rubbish. I'm on. So Yeah. Fight for the calls everybody. Yeah. Yeah. So, Yeah. And a big, a big thank you as well for everybody for coming out tonight and listening. Yeah. Thank you everyone for taking time out your evening. I'm really grateful. I didn't think anyone had tuned in, so thank you. No, we've got a whole load of people, so fabulous. And they're All being very vocal about how good you are. So Yeah. No, be, thank you. Fabulous. Keep it up, man. Share it. So, yeah. Right. So I'm, I'm gonna switch it off now, but have a good meeting everybody, and um, we'll see you at the conference room now. Yes, yes.