WEBVTT - This file was automatically generated by VIMEO. Please email info@talestoolkit.com to report problems. Um, I'm really excited about tonight's webinar. So I've known Helen for quite a while now actually. And we were lucky enough to spend quite a lot of time together in a hotel for a few years back, and we got to know each other really well. So We did. We did, We did. Yeah. So we've been friends for a while now and I think we've got a real shared love of story and a real kind of passion for early years and developing empathy. And so I'm really excited that Helen's come to talk with us tonight. And Helen has got bags of experience in teaching. Um, she's co-founded a preschool. Um, she's got a real interest in early intervention and she's the author of two amazing books. Um, one which is Building a Resilient Early Years Workforce. And the other one, which won the Nursery World Award last year is developing empathy in the early years. And that's gonna be the kind of focus for our webinar tonight. And she might also speak a little bit at the end about the work she's doing with Arc Pathway, which is, well, she's working now as education director. So, um, I'm gonna hand over to Helen 'cause you don't wanna hear me speak. You're here to hear Helen talk. Um, but before I do, um, I just want to say that tonight when you are typing away and putting questions and comments in, I've got a notepad and a pen, so I'm gonna be making lots of notes. So if Helen's not able to answer them at that point, then at the end we'll have lots of time to chat through questions. So I'm gonna hand over to you, Helen now. Really excited for tonight. Thank you so much, Kate. How lovely. Well, welcome everybody. It's really, really nice. I can see Amanda and Sarah and Catherine and Michelle, another Sarah, Charlotte and Sarah. Lots of Sarahs amazing. That's so lovely. Um, it's really, really lovely to see you. Um, Kate, can you put my, um, slides up or do I just slide through those? There we go. That's so awesome. Thank you so much. Um, Kate's actually in Spain, new Yorker, and she's given up a whole hour to do this, which is just awesome of her, so that's lovely. So this is, yeah, this is the book I've, um, written about developing empathy. Um, I've put a quote there from someone called Josh Ship, who's one of my, one of my heroes. I've just put my little thing on there. Every kid is one caring adult away from being a success story, and I just feel that starts with empathy. Um, um, so, and I've up, up here, top right, there's a little thing called up pathway, and I'm gonna talk about that a little bit later on. Um, which has got nothing to do with empathy, um, but really exciting things with profiling children in early years. So I'll let you know about that. So, empathy, I'm gonna talk about what empathy is because, um, a lot of people talk about empathy, and that's not empathy. Um, so I wanna get really clear about what it is and then how we can develop it with these amazing children that we look after and care for on a daily basis. So, look, empathy is effortful. Um, we really need to, um, sort of stop and think. It demands our space and time. It's hard work, and I think that's why people are sort of give up after the risk, sort of the feeling bit, and don't get on with the next bit. Um, but it is an effort. Um, and, and it's divided into kind of three bits. And I'm just gonna talk to you about those bits there, if I can get to the next slide. There we go. Um, so the first bit of empathy, these are the different feelings we get when, when, um, somebody's sad or happy or whatever, and it's just a response. There's no effort in it at all. So I'm gonna show you the next slide, and you'll have a, you'll have a response to this, immediate response to it. Um, if I can get to the next slide. Oh, there we go. Look at this little girl laughing. So what happens now is that your brain is feeling a little bit of what that girl's brain feels. Um, and this is down to our mirror neurons in our, in our, in our brains. And what we have is a sort of very pale reflection of the feeling that that little, that little girl has. Um, and it's, it's so will our brains fire up in the same way as that little girl's brain. And in the same way on this next slide, oh, this poor little girl, our brains will light up in the same way are mi neuros and like hers. And we'll feel a pale reflection of what she feels. And that is what this part of this responsive bit of empathy is, is all about. And I put here what looks like empathy, but isn't empathy. Um, this is the part of empathy that isn't empathy, okay? This is, this is called emotional contagion and we just can't help it. Um, I, I wanna tell you a little story that I've got next to me. Someone called Jackie, um, if I turn this around a bit, there she is. Hi. She's, she's helping me with, uh, all sort of pressing the buttons if I don't press the right one. Anyway, um, Jackie and I were in an airport the other day, and we, we were, Jackie was telling me about a time when she was in Forton and Masons and, uh, she was having a lovely tea. And, um, she was paying the bill and the, the waitress came up and said to her, um, I've given you a staff discount. And, um, she, Jackie went, uh, really, uh, why? And um, and then she noticed that she was wearing exactly the same thing as the waitress. And the waitress thought she was staff. And so we had a laugh about that. We had a giggle. And then Jackie's looked at me and said, have I ever told you about David in the supermarket in Australia? And she started laughing and laughing and her eyes just filled with tears and she just carried on laughing and laughing and so did I. And for about two minutes, we just laughed. Uh, I didn't know what I was laughing about because it, as far as I'm concerned, wasn't very funny yet. But I was very, very funny because I was just laughing because Jackie was laughing. And this is emotional contagion. It is, it is quite a sort of, um, it's humans do it. Um, and it causes all sorts of problems because if you go into a room full of children, um, you will catch the feelings that the children have and you won't even be aware that they're having these feelings. The, the Jackie one was very obvious 'cause she was laughing and I was laughing, but, um, have you ever been into a room and you just think, oh my goodness, I just feel a bit depressed now. Or, oh, this is a nice atmosphere in here. This is emotional contagion and we, we are wired for it. Um, there's a really rather fun, um, kind of scale that you can do, like a quiz, and this is about emotional contagion. So if you, any of you you want this, um, please, uh, let me know and I can get some, um, Kate to send it to you. So there's 15 questions on this emotional contagion scale, and I just on the first three, but if, if some, number one, someone I'm talking to with begins to cry, get teary eyed. Number two, being with a happy person picks me up when I'm feeling down. Uh, number three, when someone smiles warmly at me, I smile back and I feel warm inside. And there's another 12 questions. And, uh, for me, um, you, you can either have a, a one to four, so one is not, no, not really, and four is yes, I do this all the time. So your higher score can be 60 and your lower score can be 15. I score about 50 on this. I'm very, very highly emotionally contagious, which means that when I go into a classroom, I have to really watch it, that I don't pick up on all the feelings of anyone around me. Other people won't have that kind of level of emotional contagion, but it's something to be really, really good to be aware of, um, when you're teaching. Um, so next, uh, I keep hitting this button wrong. Okay, so the next bit of, um, empathy is cognitive. This, this is the thinking bit. And this is when the effort starts to come in, um, we see someone else's perspective and we're able to put ourselves in their shoes. It always, always requires an effort. This one, um, I just wondered, ah, this is so annoying. This button do beg your pardon. There we go. Right? I dunno if any of you recognize the man on the left. Um, but he, this is Richard Gere and he, um, decided that he wanted to step into someone else's shoes. He wanted to really pick up on, on the, the sort of perspective of someone else. So he went under undercover to be, um, a homeless man. And in fact, I wrote a tiny bit about it, um, in my book. Just gonna read that, that bit out. He was absolutely staggered by how, um, you know, people, um, responded to him. He says this, it was in New York City. No one, no one noticed me. I felt like, um, I felt what it was like to be a homeless man. People would just pass by me and look at me in disgrace. Only one lady was kind enough to give me some food. It was an experience I'll never forget. So many times, we forget how blessed we are. We should not take that for granted. And if we can help someone in need, we should. He was just horrified, um, by, by people's responses. And he really, really put himself into their shoes. Um, there was another lady actually who, who she, she dressed up, I can't remember her name. She dressed up, um, as an old lady and she kind of bowd her hands and her feet. And she put on sort of fogged glasses and wore tr shoes that were uneven. And, um, she went out to see how she sort of got on. She got on really badly and she was a designer. And so she ended up designing credible things for old people and people with arthritis, um, which, which are those rubber handle things you probably find in your kitchen. You might even have one. So, you know, when you step into, um, someone else's shoes, then the sort of empathetic response starts to really have some meaning. Okay, so here we go next to the next slide. Um, now this is the last bit of empathy. This is when the, the sort of the, the real response starts to happen when we feel and show concern, and then we take action. And this always, always requires an effort. Um, it's a, I think this is where people, um, miss out on the empathetic bit. And this is the bit that I would really, really love us to develop in the early years. Um, we can show children, you know, we can tell 'em about feelings and we can tell 'em about being concerned. But if we don't actually make an effort, um, and show children that we're making an effort, that bit of the developing empathy that gets missed out. Michelle, can you hear me now? 'cause I can see that you are, you are having a problem hearing me. Um, type again. Um, yeah, Michelle's having a problem. Kate, if we, we have a look at that. Okay. Right. Next slide. Oh, it's doing this funny thing again. There we go. There we go. So, um, this is a bit worrying only a small percentage of us reach full, empathetic potential. Uh, if you think about someone like Donald Trump, um, maybe you don't wanna think about someone like Donald Trump, but, um, you know, I don't think he has a, a very sort of full empathetic potential. Uh, apparently he, um, he's never read a book in his life. Um, and I think there's a real connection from that. And his empathy levels, reading and, um, reading books, novels, um, biographies, autobiographies, you know, this really does increase people's empathy. 'cause you start to see, see things from someone else's perspective. Okay, so let's have a look at this. Here are the common blocks to empathy. Um, and these are the ones that I think, I think are the common blocks. The first one is not understanding the bigger picture. Now, that's just major. I think that every war, every conflict, anything anywhere is because people don't understand the bigger picture. And that's where we have to make the effort to really, really see it. Um, the second thing is an empathy gap. And I'll talk about that in a minute. And the third is, the third thing is different temperaments. You know, if we have a different temperament to somebody else, um, that kind of makes it harder for our empathy levels. We just don't understand. It's kind of like a gap, a gap of understanding. Okay, so gonna go to the next one, right? This lovely man, I don't actually know this lovely man, but, um, here we have not understanding the, the bigger picture. So, um, a while back I was driving my car and I went up to a big roundabout and a and a white van with a man rather like this, with somebody else in the, in the van. Uh, came up beside me and I went onto the roundabout and I went in front of his van. Oh dear. And I felt really, really awful. He beat, we didn't beep. It was a really loud, you know, his horn was going, he was shouting out the window. Both of them were being very rude with their gestures and their words. I won't say what they began with, but you can probably imagine. And it got worse and worse. We went round the round about, and then, um, we went down another road and oh, joy, there was a red light. And we both had to stop there. And they were both shouting at me. And I kept my window up, thought, I'm just not gonna look at them. And then I thought, oh dear, dear, this, I've gotta delete me. So I wound my window down, or rather I pressed the button, it goes down automatically these days and turned to them and said, oh, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. You must have thought, what an idiot. And you must have been worried that I go into your car. What? I'm so sorry. I can't, I can't tell you how sorry I'm, and they suddenly went, oh, it's all right darling. No problem. Don't worry, darling. That's all right. No worries at all. It's fine. Are you all right? And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. Are you all right? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. That's, so we waved each other off in absolutely best of friends. And it just amazed me. 'cause I think they just didn't really, um, understand the bigger picture, which was that I wasn't horrible. I wasn't trying to carve them up. I wasn't trying to beat them down the next road. I was just this person in a car who happened to go in front of them. So it was really nice. And, um, but that was just about understanding the bigger picture. And if you think of that in many, many ways, you know, if you are behind someone in a queue at the supermarket and they're just being annoying and they're really big cross with the, with the girl at the till, um, you know, we just don't get the bigger picture. We don't understand it if we do a whole perspective on everything changes. So that's something really important that we need to teach children to see the bigger picture. Okay, the next slide here. So this is the empathy gap. Now, um, the empathy gap, if you imagine how you feel when you are, um, just nice and comfortable. So imagine right now we're kind of quite relaxed and, uh, we're sitting here and you're in your sitting room, or you in your bedroom, wherever you are in your pajamas, um, everything that you are feeling now, your brain is firing up in a certain way. Um, you're calm and you're comfortable, and, uh, it, it fires up. Um, in a cold state, that's what, that's what it's called. When you are very angry or annoyed, like those people in the van were with me. Um, your brain fires up in a different way. And for some reason we have this empathy gap. We cannot work out how we're gonna feel when we're angry and cross and when we're angry and cross. We just can't understand how we feel when we're calm and comfortable. And this is our own comfort and our own discomfort or our own comfort. We just don't get it. And so we could make a decision about something. I'm gonna, you know, go out. Um, I'm gonna go biking every day for the next month when you are in a nice, calm and comfortable state, and then you, you just don't get that. You won't wanna do that because you are gonna feel fearful or hungry or exhausted. You won't wanna do that. So this is a really important thing just to be aware of, um, the empathy gap. It's, it's, um, it's a, it's a sort of one of those blocks to, to empathy. Um, the next one is temperament. So this is, um, you know, all the different temperaments we have. Um, some are mood. Some people have a sort of, you know, positive mood levels and other people have less positive mood levels. Um, whether we're very sort of predictable, whether we withdraw or we're kind of right. Get in there. You know, what, what sort of temperament do we have? Um, I put a quote there for the sake of the happy child, for the sake of a warm and loving family life temperament really does matter. And what we do is we don't really think about each other's temperaments. Uh, you know, I've got four children. I have thought about their temperaments only because I'm aware that I need to, um, but I didn't way back. And, um, one of my children, um, Thomas, my youngest, I can remember being absolutely staggered by him because we, we went swimming. He was about four. He's 15 now at six foot. Ridiculous. Um, anyway, he, we went swimming. And when we came outta the swimming pool, um, I was holding his hand. We are going across the, the, the car park. And there were these boys that were kind of fighting, uh, and a whole group of girls as well, kind of egging them on. And the boys were fighting, and one pushed the other one into a hedge. And, uh, my little boy, Thomas, he pointed his finger at the big one, the big boy, and said, you, he said, you are not playing nicely. And, and this boy looked really embarrassed and, uh, stopped fighting, and they kind of all kind of scratched their heads and wandered off. And I thought, my goodness, me, my son, my 4-year-old son has kind of sorted it out. If when I was four, there is no way that I would've been able to do that. His sort of confidence is just, just out there. I don't, I think, where's he come from? What, what is this? His temperament is completely different to mine. So it's trying to find a good fit for all these different temperaments that we have. It's really good idea to find out what temperament you've got. It's really good idea to find out what everyone else's you've got. So if you've got a class of children or you just, you know, you've got your, you've got children at home, or you deal with children or child mind, or whatever you are, it's a really, really good idea, really. Um, and again, I've got a, um, a temperament sheet, a kind of quiz that you can have a, you can have a look at and have a go if you want to just print it out lots of times and, uh, just do it at home. It's good fun and it's quite interesting what you find as well. Okay, so I'm just getting onto the next slide now. Okay. How then can we develop empathy in the early years? So this is the, this is the big question. Um, the, the, the one I, the, I'm only gonna go for stories. There are so many ways, but, um, obvious, obviously, because, you know, tales toolkit, uh, that amazing resource that Kate's created, um, is all about stories. And that's, that's kind of what I want to, what, what I want to talk about. 'cause it is the most powerful of tools, um, that we can possibly find anything anywhere. Like I said before, Donald Trump hasn't ever read a book. I don't know what he reads, but I don't think he reads very much. Um, and as a result, he's got this amazing kind of empathy deficit. Um, so Peter Gray, I dunno if any of you have heard of Peter Gray, he's, he, uh, he's great. Talks a lot about narrative and stories and play and what have you. Um, what he says always sounds quite complicated. So I've adapted what he said made it a little bit less complicated. But he says, the simplicity of a story helps us to understand the complexity of our world, and it's so, so true. So let's go through these and see how we can find those. Every time I try and get onto the next slide, it doesn't work. There we go. Right. So this sounds really obvious, and what has it got to do with empathy? But it's so, so important. Children learn to identify beginning, middle, and end. Um, I think this is the beauty of Kate's tail toolkits, that there is a beginning and a middle and an end. Uh, and there's people and there's a problem and there's a solution. That beginning, middle, and end is the foundation of empathetic understanding and stories. It's a concept that children learn to have. It's just like anything that you do if you are home or child minder, uh, um, your preschool, whatever it is, you need to have lots of activities that have beginning and middle and end just so children can get that concept. Um, and stories give this wonderful, wonderful, uh, opportunity for children to learn to do that and get that concept. So talk about beginning, oh, let's, this is the beginning of our story. And, uh, and at the end, say the end. It's just so simple and so easy. And yet it's a lasting, lasting effect. And the foundation of this empathetic, um, understanding and stories. Okay, I've done it again. There we go. Next slide. So, another way children learn to understand different perspectives. So I dunno, how many of you know, um, about theory of mind, um, in the book that this, you know, this book that, um, I've written Chapter three was written by Jackie Harland, who's sitting next to me. Well done Jackie Harland. And it's all about, um, theory of mind, and I won't go into it in detail, but children learn to understand different perspectives. This is a really, really important part of theory of Mind. This is a really, really important part of empathy. And children don't learn to do this till they're three or four, aren't they? Mm-Hmm. Um, before that they just think everyone's feels the same as they do and got the same perspectives and everyone's the same, everyone's the same. And then suddenly they, this realization changes and they start to see that it's not. And people have different perspectives, different feelings, uh, different views, different beliefs. It's major, major, um, and this happens, um, round about the age of three to four. So that's a really, really important one. Um, next one is children learn to identify emotions. So this sounds so obvious, but this is all about emotional literacy. Um, we all know this one. Um, we all know that we have to label feelings and we all know that, um, children don't know what they, what those feelings are and dunno what they look like, dunno what they feel like until we tell them. But lots and lots of people, um, think that children just know, um, all of you sitting here, I can absolutely guarantee that you'll be labeling feelings because why would you come to a talk about empathy if that wasn't something you're doing already? So that's amazing. But this is so, so important. So when, when we're talking about inner story, when we're, when reading from a lovely, lovely book, um, let's label those feelings. Let's talk about those feelings. Let's get that language spoken every day, um, of large amounts of the day when you are just playing with the children. But particularly with, um, with stories. Um, children learn to make connections. This is where it's really, really, really interesting for them. I dunno, how many of you, um, watch University Challenge and, um, whether or not you can ever answer any of the questions. Um, I watched it last night with my husband. I couldn't answer one question, not one. I think he answered one. Occasionally. There's sort of three or four or five, I think. Wow, that's pretty excited. Um, but when children, it's, and it's fun. You know, when you actually make a connection and you answer a question, it's great. It's like, oh, well, otherwise it's really boring. So this is the same with stories. Children learn to make these connections and that's when it's exciting. So make connections, you know, we need to do that when we're reading these stories. Hey, hey James, you've got a bike like that at home. Or Who's got one of these? Or who's got one of those? You know, just keep making those connections. It's so important. And that's how the children feel so, so involved. Okay? Um, the, this is, um, this is an important one. Children start to get an awareness of people who are not in their immediate world. Those people who live outside their world. Um, really important. Again, they children need to have theory of mind. So going back to that perspective of other people. Um, but stories, you know, these, we've got amazing stories, haven't we? That we can, um, that we can share with children. Now, hand a surprise. And there's so many in Africa and India and all over the world, um, and just people who aren't in their world. It doesn't have to be in a foreign country. You know, you can have lovely books about people who simply aren't in that child's world. So let's get them out. Let's free them. Um, let's, let's talk about them so that children can really experience something that they don't really experience on their everyday, everyday life. Oh, there we go. Next slide. There we go. So how can you, the adult deepen the empathetic process and stories? So this is where we get really involved. Um, the first one, I'm trying to get to that next slide again. Jackie's doing this really well. She knows how to get the next slide. There we go. So this may sound really, really obvious, but use your voice. Um, so modulate it during stories. Be silly, joyful, funny, serious, curious, quizzical, surprise, puzzled or excited. And just don't worry about making a fool of yourself. You know, make your enjoyment visible. Um, I, I, you know, I remember having wonderful, wonderful teachers in our preschool who would just tell stories with so much in their voice. It was just so much fun. And then there was the occasional teacher that didn't, it was very, very monosyllabic, but the children still loved it. They were very, very gripped and interested. But some, when, when somebody really throws themselves in and just doesn't mind about how silly they are, uh, it makes a real difference to the story. So use your voice. 'cause you know, we've all got grade eight in our voices. You know, you know how to use your voice brilliantly. Um, and it's a, it's absolutely free. You don't have to, nobody has to teach you how to use it. There it is. So let's really, really make, um, make good use of it. Okay? Oh, now I'm gonna do what you did. You can, going to the next slide. Now Jackie's doing it for me. Oh, there we go. Is that the next slide? I think. I think one back. There we go. Yes. No, the laughter one. It was, there we go. Encourage laughter. So laughter does all sorts of things. It, um, you know, it's lights up the brain. It's really good for our mental health. There's all sorts of benefits. And, um, I think that laughter is so important. And we kind of feel a little bit embarrassed if the children are really laughing loudly. If we're in a class of children and they're all, they've just completely lost control. They're all laughing so much, but it's not, it's a really, really good thing. It's so good for them. It's like, like having a complete mental clear out. Um, and we need to really, really encourage it. So, laugh out loud at funny bits. Talk about how funny things are with them. Oh my goodness, that's so funny. Talk about how funny it's make your enjoyment of something and your laughter really visible, really tangible, really acceptable. What, what should happen? It's so, such a good idea. Um, there we go. So laughter's a really important one. Go deeper. Um, I would really recommend that, you know, you just have stories with one or two children. Um, maybe three tops. Get to for a real deeper level of intimacy with them and talk about how you feel. We tend to go, we tend to label feelings. Like, oh, she's sad. Oh, he's happy. Oh look, that man looks cross. And we don't go any further than that. Just go deeper. Get in there. Uh, talk about how you feel. Sometimes I feel really sad. Oh, I wonder why he's sad. What do you think he's, even if they're not saying anything, they're looking at you blankly just narrate it. I think he's really sad 'cause he misses his mommy. Oh dear, dear, I miss my mummy. Do you miss your mummy? And just, you know, go on, just go on, go deeper. Really, really important. Okay. Oh, next slide. We are doing really well. So this is a quote, um, which I just love. We have managed to harness the power of the wind, the sun, and the water, but have yet to appreciate the power of our children to affect social change. Um, and yet each of us all, how many of you are though here? All 20 of you? You know, we're affecting social change. I like to believe I've affected a tiny, tiny bit of, of, of social change through just, um, doing the things that I've been saying in this, in this, in this slideshow. Um, you know, empathy is just an extraordinary thing. And if we have, um, an empathetic mindset, we affect social change. So let's talk about that. Hang on a minute. Next slide. Jackie's gonna do it for me again. There we go. It all starts with us. Um, an empathetic mindset. So what is that? What is an empathetic mindset? Well, the first thing is that we listen. Um, listening to children, uh, with a whole, whole brain. Um, and listening with them not to sort of answer them or wait till they finish so you can do something else. But just giving them everything and just listening, being in that moment, withholding judgment. You know how you kind of think, oh, I wouldn't do that. No, I don't think that's great. Uh, none of that. And just emotionally connecting with them. So it's, it's co constantly coming back to listening. Um, and then finally at the end, just communicate, communicating that message. You're, you're not alone. Um, whether or not the child is, um, sad or not, it doesn't matter. It's just that wonderful message you're giving is you're not alone. I'm here with you. I'm really, really enjoying what you are saying. I really, really love listening to you because you are amazing, you know, roots of empathy and all of that. So listen, thank you very much. Um, has anybody got any questions? There was a question. There we go. From Charlotte. How many feelings do children have, like jealousy? Okay, so Charlotte has asked a question, um, how many feelings do children have? Like, jealousy? So just going up there, how many feeling haves? Oh, how many feelings do children have at three to four? Like jealousy? Oh my gosh, they've got all the feelings that we have. Every single one. There's not one. They don't. Is that, I hope I'm answering you how you've answered, asked that question, Charlotte. Um, yeah, can you hear me? Yeah. Um, the Regulation A um, a child of three to four will have all the same feelings that we have. Um, but they just don't know what they are. And so it's just a matter of, of of, of sort of labeling them. Um, we can get really complicated, can't we? We don't wanna say, oh, you look quizzical. 'cause that could be a bit complicated. Um, and I, and jealousy is definitely something that they will feel, but I, um, it's, it's a difficult one, isn't it? Because how do you, how do you talk to a child about jealousy? Um, and how do you, um, how do you teach them all about jealousy? It's such a grownup emotion, isn't it? But we, we just start with, with, oh, you know, you, you look really sad. Uh, you know, is, is it that your friend's gone off with someone else? That's really hard. Um, so all the feelings are there, um, and it's just a matter of finding those the right words to, to help, to support the child through the feeling. That's what it's all about. Talking about and identifying them. Do you wanna mention, Um, so Jenna, um, you started to use Zones of Regulation. Um, I, yeah, if, uh, if, if I'm understanding you properly, these are the ones, um, when you have a sort of the colors, um, for, for all the different emotions, uh, these are amazing. Um, I'd be really interested to see how, how that works for you. Um, and whether or not you know, that, that if you've noticed that children are able to sort of speak more about their feelings than they used to, and whether, whether it just sort of becomes a, a mindset that everybody does be really, really, really interested to, to find that one out. It's brilliant. Um, I dunno if anyone else is using that, but, um, if not, um, we can find a link for you, um, to help you to use those ones. Um, any, any other kind, any other kind of questions here? Let's just have a look down here. You used the Color Monster book, so Sarah Loma. Um, that sounds amazing. I don't know this one. Um, I'd love to find out about that one, Sarah. So, um, presumably the colors are the same as in the zone of regulation. That sounds amazing. Um, um, Becky, are there any children's books that are near and dear that you use for exploring feelings? Do you know, I use any book? Um, I think there are amazing books on empathy. Um, but I, I think, you know, if you, there's a book called When Mom Turned Into a Monster. I don't know if you know that one. I simply adore this book, um, because the mother is completely and utterly furious and across and grumpy because, uh, people are coming to t in the houses in such a mess and her children are so badly behaved and it's awful. And it's a really funny one. Um, you know, you really get the voices going mad and have a really fun time with that one. Um, so I think, um, that Anna Brown has put The Color Monster is a brilliant book, uh, back about empathy, um, talking about empathy and all the different feelings. Um, but I would say that I would, um, use any book and talk about feelings in any book because if we just try and find books about empathy and books, about feelings, uh, it can get quite boring actually. Um, so it's nice to have a book that's just full of, of, of a favorite story. You know, hungry Caterpillar, why not use that one? Um, the Gruffalo, um, you know, all these, the Big Brown Bear, I think it is. There's just all the children's favorite books. That's what I would use. It's a film Inside Out, Isn't it? Yes. Film. Film, yes. There's an amazing film called Inside Out. Um, I dunno if any of you seen that. That's just all about feelings. It's amazing. Um, and that's good fun to to read with your, uh, to, to look at with your children. Um, I'm just looking through here for some more questions now. Somebody's typing. So Jane Samuels, you are using it. The, the yellow's happy. Green is calm, red is angry, and then, uh, blue is something else, isn't it? These are amazing. Um, Kate's gonna come back in a minute. She just lost the sound. The nice thing about zone of regulation is that, you know, color is right or Wrong. Yes. And It just gives them some Nice tools. Yeah. Um, Jackie's saying here that the really nice thing about the zone of regulation is that no color is wrong. Um, you know, or right or wrong, it just helps children recognize feelings. Um, using, using the colors. It's so clever. It's, you know, once children, anything we can use to, for children to recognize feelings is amazing. I don't, you know, if you've got, um, even if you just draw smiley faces and sad faces, um, you know, and you have those at the door and people recognize if they, what they're feeling like when they come in. Um, but this, the, the zones of regulation are really, really good. And I would so recommend that, you know, you, you, you start using those. If you are not, I can see Kate's moving her mouse around desperately try to get back on. Okay. So has anyone else got any, any more questions about anything? I'm just having a look through here, seeing if you've got any. So as I said before, I've got, um, the thing on temperaments I've got, if you want to have that, and I've got the thing on emotional, um, contagion as well. So if you want those links, um, then please, um, you know, just let me know and we'll send those to you. Um, it's easy. Um, there we go. This is outside of Storybooks, yet. Have any suggestions for specific language to use with preschoolers during conflict play? That's a really, really good, oh my goodness. So conflict. Isn't it fun? I really, really hope that, um, you can change mindsets on conflict because it's, it's, um, it's a really good thing to look forward to. But when we have a, a conflict and we've got it in our, you know, in our home, or we've got it in the classroom, um, stop everything, get down to their level, um, and just eyeball them and say, wow, you look really, really sad. Or you look really, really cross, um, whatever it is that you see on their faces. And, and you'll, you'll find that, you know, people immediately like, oh, okay. They don't feel quite so, um, desperate because somebody knows that things aren't right. And then start asking about what's going on. Um, you know, what happened. Um, if they don't have the language, you can narrate it. Say, oh, you've taken the train and the blue train and you wanna have the blue train. Um, talk about that. And then once, um, you know, you've sorted out what, what it, what, who owed the ants, as my mother would say, um, then you can start to say, I wonder what we can do to make this better wonder what we can do. What can we do? And uh, and if they're not gonna come up with an answer, say, I wonder if we can, you know, somebody can have the blue train first, or the other person can have the blue train. At this point, the sort of conflicts died down a bit because everyone's feeling listened to and heard. Um, so I would, and then of course that the, you know, the, you can come to a conclusion together. You can try it out and, and see what happens next. And I, I've, you know, the, the amount, I don't know how many hundreds of conflict resolutions I've been part of, um, the, the language is just to listen and to understand and to validate what they're feeling and to validate what, how everyone's feeling. And, um, and to sort of together try and find a solution to it. I hope that helps. I hope that helps. British Sign language is your, your, you find using British sign language alongside the language really helps the conflict. That's amazing. I love that. Oh my goodness, I thank you for teaching me something. I think that's a really, really, really powerful thing to do. Um, I hope yeah, everyone just get a load of that. Try sign language along alongside, that's absolutely brilliant. Yep. Makaton Bianca's saying that's absolutely brilliant. I absolutely love that. Any visual support. Um, it's, it's gonna be really, really valuable. Uh, yeah. Look, there's Kate, any visual, so, um, you know, gestures, yeah, gestures, signs, signs, all all of that. Pictures, yeah, pictures, symbols. So, so powerful. Really love it. Thank you so much, Michelle. Thank you so much, Bianca. That's so cool. I love that. So, do we have any other questions? Somebody, Anna in my heart by Joe Wittick is another great book. Thank you, Anna. Oh, boys. Do they struggle with empathy, do you know? No, they don't struggle with empathy. They don't struggle with empathy. Um, but I think we deal with them differently. Um, it's much, much better than it used to be. I had a head mistress once that used to save little boys in my class. Little boys don't cry. Um, which was, that was terrible. Um, but no, I would say that, um, boys and girls, um, have the same, you know, empathy levels and all of that, but it's just how we deal with them and how we label feelings and all of that, that are different. Um, I think that something that's really, really useful is to use role play, um, to help, to support them in empathy. Um, we had a whole load of little boys in my preschool who were mad for superheroes and oh my goodness, they, we were very boy heavy. One year I think we had something like two, two thirds, almost three quarters were boys and the rest were girls. And it was really, really hard. Um, and they were very, very sort of high sort of volume, voling, what's the word? So whatever. Very noisy boys, but we loved them. And so we thought, well, we'll do superheroes then. And so we did, and we did so much role play through the superheroes. We did so much, um, empathy through superheroes. Uh, we, they wanted to have guns and you can imagine all the rest of it. Um, so we, um, we, they didn't have physical guns, but all the guns shot out were love and kindness. And their faces when they first heard that we had guns that shot out love were just horrified. Um, but after a while they got used to that and they'd, they'd shoot out kisses and hugs and kindness and all sorts of things. Um, so I think it's a, it's a matter of, um, really listening to boys. If you're, particularly if you are a girl, you know, you are a girl teacher and you've got a whole load of boys, wouldn't it be great if the earliest was full of, of men? Um, and there was half the workforce were boys and half the workforce were girls. That would be great, wouldn't it? Um, but no, they boys don't struggle with empathy. But I think that we need to really think very, very hard about how, how we talk to them and how we support them in empathy. Mm-Hmm. Um, Charlotte's just saying through here about, um, through role play and role play's a great way to talk about emotions and things that happen for children at home. So I dunno, if you wanna just talk about that for a minute. Yeah. I think role play is just so exciting, particularly for, for empathy. You know, um, we had, um, we had so much fun with our role play. Uh, I think we can get a little bit boring and just have, um, you know, we have our home corner and then we make, make change it into a cafe occasionally. Uh, you know, I would just go mad with role play. This is where children learn about other people's perspectives. Other people's feelings. This is where you can get in there and label feelings and just build that emotional literacy, um, every single day. And so we had, um, gosh, we had all sorts of crazy role play. Um, we had, you know, a, a space station. Um, we had somebody, somebody liked, um, uh, fish. So we had a kind of underwater kind of place, which was interesting 'cause obviously we weren't underwater. Um, somebody else loved animals. So we had farms, we had, we had a milk milking the cow's place with everyone in white coats and kind of, it was, it was weird really, but they all loved it. And so just go wild, go mad. Just think outside the box with role play. Um, I, 'cause I think this is the, this is a place where children effortlessly Yes. Learn about each other's feelings and, and that kind of like sharing because they learn rules in a different way. Do they do in the rest of the, of the, of the sort of setting because they realize the rules actually make the play work, make the rules, make the play work better. And, um, so it's a, it's a really, really good place. Go wild. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that links really well with what you were saying before about, um, giving children experiences through story. And I think role plays another place where children can have a go and experience things that they wouldn't necessarily have at home. Exactly. Exactly. Um, I think that, yes. 'cause um, the places that they've been to and places that they're interested in, that you can then recreate. Yeah. Um, so, you know, like a, like, you know, they went to a Chinese restaurant, so you could create a Chinese restaurant or they, or they went to the lat or somewhere and you can create a lat. It's amazing what really boring things children find really interesting. Yes. Um, but uh, you know, we had a launch. It was, they loved it. Think why Mm-Hmm. But anyway, there we go. Um, yes, you sort of create these, um, these, these places where children can experience something that is safe and, and uh, where they can just learn about, uh, whether it's a different, um, totally different experience. Yes. Or it's just something that, that is, they're very, very used to it, but it's, they're seeing it in a different way, you know, bit like the, the ki the home corner. Mm-Hmm. Um, so I think, yeah, it's, it's a such a valuable thing. I've written one chapter in there about, about it. I, it's, I go wild about it because I think we can get so boring and we need to get out there and go wild. Yeah. And often you find that children really kind of take on this dictator kind of role or like, like being the mum or being kind of the the person who's the boss or, yes. Yeah. When they, when they play the teacher, it's always very like, quite strong in terms of the punishments they put in place. I know. And they get that from think Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. That I know. I like that. It's lovely though, isn't it? They can just be these kind of people that they're not normally and they can be bossy and cross and grumpy and funny and, and strong and all these things. Mm-Hmm. It's great. It's so, so lovely. They could find a role for themselves that they're not normally. And I was, was the, I was the youngest of four and I used to love role play 'cause I used to get really bossy. Mm-Hmm. And I always wanted to be the teacher. Yes. Or the mummy. I never wanted to be the baby because having always been the youngest I wanted to, you know, take control of it. Yeah. So really important. That's it. Um, has anybody got any questions before Helen finishes up and has an evening? I've got a couple people typing here now. Okay. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. I can see Charlotte and Anna, Catherine. Oh, Oh, Charlotte. Love it. Yeah. Sorry. Based injured animals and keepers. Oh, love it. That's just what I'm talking about. That's so cool. Yeah. Well that was a lot of fun. Yeah. Isn't that brilliant? Oh my, that's a really good one. Gosh, that's so cool. Um, Do you want to just chat a little bit about the new work that you're doing and the stuff that You're getting at the same? Yeah. That'll be so amazing. So, um, Jackie and I, um, we have this company called Art Pathway. Mm-Hmm. And, um, in fact, if we go to the first slide, I think I've got a thing on there. Um, um, and what it is, is we are, um, profiling children age 12 months to five years. Um, so, and it's, it's just going down a storm. It's just so exciting. It's really, really simple, really. It's really, really fun to use. Yes. And, um, and so teachers can profile their children and then they get all these amazing next steps, which we call learning pathways. Um, so it's kind of like continual CBD for the, for the teacher because, um, they learn all the kind of learning principles for, for a number sense. And they learn all the things that they need to learn for conflict resolution, all that kind of stuff. Mm-Hmm. It's just fabulous. So we're really, really enjoying it. We're doing it here in United Kingdom. Um, we're doing it overseas in Dubai and India and it's just really, really fun. Mm-Hmm. So if you wanna find out anymore, just have a look at our website just there. That'd be great. Lovely. Brilliant. So big thank you for everyone for coming along and for Helen for keeping it all going in the middle when I disappeared off. You just went for a drink, didn't you Kate? I did A drink in the bar, so yeah, I'm in Spain today, so the WiFi's not great. Oh. Oh. Well thank you so much. It's been really fun. And thanks to everybody for all your lovely questions. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Brilliant. Thank you Helen. And for everyone for coming out this evening. Good one. Take, take care. Thank you.