WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.735 --> 00:00:15.125 Super excited to have Jenny Mosley here today. 2 00:00:15.625 --> 00:00:18.645 Um, right back at the start in 2015, I was asked 3 00:00:18.645 --> 00:00:20.205 to speak at a conference and 4 00:00:20.205 --> 00:00:21.325 Jenny was actually in the audience. 5 00:00:21.785 --> 00:00:23.605 So big case of nerves for me. 6 00:00:24.025 --> 00:00:26.685 Um, but I've got to say she was the best person 7 00:00:26.705 --> 00:00:29.045 to have in the audience when you're creating a group story. 8 00:00:29.625 --> 00:00:32.125 Um, right from the start of my teaching career, 9 00:00:32.175 --> 00:00:33.405 Jenny has been a big name 10 00:00:33.785 --> 00:00:36.885 and she shares our passion for stories, creativity 11 00:00:37.065 --> 00:00:39.965 and positive relationships at the heart of everything. 12 00:00:40.465 --> 00:00:43.365 So I'm really pleased you're all gonna hear us speak today. 13 00:00:43.655 --> 00:00:46.205 Jenny is a national and international consultant 14 00:00:46.505 --> 00:00:49.045 and has decades of experience working with schools. 15 00:00:49.615 --> 00:00:52.245 She's trained all over the world, including New Zealand, 16 00:00:52.435 --> 00:00:54.725 Australia, India, Japan. 17 00:00:54.945 --> 00:00:58.965 The list goes on, and she's author of many, many books. 18 00:00:59.875 --> 00:01:02.565 Lots of you will have heard of her Golden Model Approach 19 00:01:02.905 --> 00:01:05.725 and Circle Time activities which promote staff 20 00:01:05.865 --> 00:01:08.445 and pupil wellbeing and respectful relationships. 21 00:01:08.905 --> 00:01:11.485 And Jenny talks a lot about creating this safe learning 22 00:01:11.485 --> 00:01:15.005 environment where children and adults feel valued and heard. 23 00:01:15.175 --> 00:01:17.245 Jenny has been featured lots 24 00:01:17.245 --> 00:01:18.885 of times in the press over the years. 25 00:01:19.375 --> 00:01:21.925 She's been on the BBC, and she's collaborated 26 00:01:22.025 --> 00:01:24.525 and worked with lots of names that you'll recognize. 27 00:01:24.985 --> 00:01:28.605 And more recently she's created online resources aimed at 28 00:01:28.605 --> 00:01:30.645 boosting wellbeing that are well worth checking out, 29 00:01:31.305 --> 00:01:32.445 but less from me. 30 00:01:32.785 --> 00:01:34.245 I'm sure you are all very keen 31 00:01:34.245 --> 00:01:36.085 to hear from Jenny. So let's get started. 32 00:01:37.065 --> 00:01:39.725 Um, um, but yeah, really excited to be here 33 00:01:39.725 --> 00:01:42.125 with Jenny today and so happy that we've managed 34 00:01:42.125 --> 00:01:44.085 to set this up and get to chat with you. 35 00:01:44.545 --> 00:01:47.325 Um, and we're big fans of your work. Um, but yeah. 36 00:01:47.345 --> 00:01:49.125 So let's kick off 'cause I know people are really keen 37 00:01:49.125 --> 00:01:50.605 to hear from Jenny and not me. 38 00:01:51.225 --> 00:01:54.045 Um, so I'd kind of love to just hear about your journey, 39 00:01:54.115 --> 00:01:56.485 like what kind of led you to do in the work that you do now. 40 00:01:57.945 --> 00:02:02.725 Wow. Um, very long time ago I was in, 41 00:02:02.945 --> 00:02:06.965 um, when I went to Clapham Junction, I was working in a, a, 42 00:02:07.125 --> 00:02:09.605 a big sort of special needs 43 00:02:09.785 --> 00:02:11.405 and, well, it was actually for children 44 00:02:11.485 --> 00:02:12.925 with emotional behavioral difficulties. 45 00:02:12.995 --> 00:02:15.485 That was the main, uh, thrust of it. Mm-hmm. 46 00:02:15.705 --> 00:02:19.605 Um, so that was in 72. And, um, it was really hard. 47 00:02:19.865 --> 00:02:24.685 It was, it was just the kids suffered from all sorts 48 00:02:24.685 --> 00:02:27.765 of deprivation and, um, all sorts of adversity. 49 00:02:28.185 --> 00:02:30.965 The parents went a state, it was a really tough time. 50 00:02:31.345 --> 00:02:34.125 And, uh, we were getting very run down and we got a new head 51 00:02:34.225 --> 00:02:35.685 and he looked at us and he's, 52 00:02:35.985 --> 00:02:37.765 we looked haggard and we were only young. 53 00:02:38.225 --> 00:02:39.965 And he said, um, I think what we're gonna do. 54 00:02:39.965 --> 00:02:41.885 He said, I think we'll have a circle time. 55 00:02:42.625 --> 00:02:44.045 Um, I've never heard of it. 56 00:02:44.165 --> 00:02:45.205 I don't know what a circle time was. 57 00:02:45.205 --> 00:02:46.725 He said, no, I think we'll have a circle time. 58 00:02:46.725 --> 00:02:50.325 He said, with a psychiatrist, um, he said for the staff, 59 00:02:51.065 --> 00:02:52.645 and I couldn't believe it for the staff. 60 00:02:53.465 --> 00:02:55.965 So he, he organized it with the governors 61 00:02:55.965 --> 00:02:57.365 that the kids would go home early on a Friday. 62 00:02:57.505 --> 00:03:01.725 So every Friday we'd have this. A very good facilitator Yes. 63 00:03:02.465 --> 00:03:05.525 Who we'd actually, we'd sit in the circle mm-hmm. 64 00:03:05.665 --> 00:03:06.965 And, um, it, 65 00:03:06.985 --> 00:03:09.125 we would actually be out asked to bring the issues. 66 00:03:09.705 --> 00:03:13.485 And I remember the first issue that I ever bought, 67 00:03:13.485 --> 00:03:14.845 which I was really, uh, 68 00:03:14.845 --> 00:03:17.205 really anxious about, really embarrassed. 69 00:03:17.345 --> 00:03:19.445 And I just said, look, um, I need help 70 00:03:19.445 --> 00:03:22.605 because I have a child in my class and I don't like him. 71 00:03:23.065 --> 00:03:24.725 And it was such a huge thing to say 72 00:03:24.725 --> 00:03:25.925 that you didn't like a child. 73 00:03:26.665 --> 00:03:29.205 Um, and it, it, it, it was 74 00:03:29.435 --> 00:03:31.645 because we'd been together so long, 75 00:03:31.645 --> 00:03:33.845 people didn't glance at each other. 76 00:03:33.845 --> 00:03:37.245 They didn't talk behind or whisper about me. 77 00:03:37.595 --> 00:03:39.165 They just accepted it. 78 00:03:39.165 --> 00:03:41.005 And other people said, would it help to know, you know, 79 00:03:41.005 --> 00:03:42.885 that I, I've sometimes felt this way. 80 00:03:43.225 --> 00:03:44.565 And I said, well, I don't know. Yes. 81 00:03:44.705 --> 00:03:46.365 You know, it was wonderful to hear people say that, 82 00:03:46.365 --> 00:03:47.645 but I needed some help as well. 83 00:03:47.985 --> 00:03:50.165 Yes. And so they gave, they came up with lots of ideas. 84 00:03:50.165 --> 00:03:51.885 Like one woman said, would it help to know that 85 00:03:52.645 --> 00:03:54.885 actually he is motivated by working with younger children? 86 00:03:55.065 --> 00:03:57.245 Now, I had no idea that actually being 87 00:03:57.245 --> 00:04:00.445 with younger children, um, would, uh, 88 00:04:00.705 --> 00:04:02.285 was was a reward or an incentive. 89 00:04:02.425 --> 00:04:05.165 Mm-hmm. And it was, he used to go to the nursery. Yes. 90 00:04:05.185 --> 00:04:08.245 Um, and actually I'm not, he wasn't actually helping. 91 00:04:08.385 --> 00:04:11.285 He was just, just having a time 92 00:04:11.285 --> 00:04:13.485 that he needed for him. 93 00:04:13.825 --> 00:04:16.085 Yes. Um, so that was really helpful to have something, 94 00:04:16.085 --> 00:04:17.405 because anything, only time I 95 00:04:17.635 --> 00:04:19.005 admired something, he'd kick it down. 96 00:04:19.025 --> 00:04:22.125 Or if a a piece of paper put up, he'd just rip it up. Yes. 97 00:04:22.145 --> 00:04:23.685 So this was very interesting. 98 00:04:24.745 --> 00:04:26.085 And then somebody said, would it help 99 00:04:26.085 --> 00:04:27.365 to know about his grandmother? 100 00:04:27.825 --> 00:04:29.485 Now, I didn't know that about his grandmother. 101 00:04:29.505 --> 00:04:32.485 And it's interesting how communication means 102 00:04:32.545 --> 00:04:34.845 so much in schools because a lot 103 00:04:34.845 --> 00:04:37.765 of midday supervisors I work with will say to me 104 00:04:38.035 --> 00:04:40.365 that they're not passed on enough information. 105 00:04:40.585 --> 00:04:42.485 Mm-hmm. Um, that everyone's so busy, they, 106 00:04:42.485 --> 00:04:43.485 they're not told things. 107 00:04:43.905 --> 00:04:47.445 Yes. And it's important, you don't have to say to midday 108 00:04:47.755 --> 00:04:50.125 that, um, you know, the mother and father have broken up, 109 00:04:50.145 --> 00:04:52.445 but just that this child is very fragile at the moment 110 00:04:52.625 --> 00:04:54.485 and needs, you need to keep an eye on him. 111 00:04:54.755 --> 00:04:56.925 It's that communication which keeps everything going. 112 00:04:57.225 --> 00:04:59.805 Mm-hmm. So I, I suddenly was in this world 113 00:04:59.805 --> 00:05:02.725 of very good communication and kindness. 114 00:05:02.825 --> 00:05:04.765 Nobody moaning behind anyone's backs. 115 00:05:04.765 --> 00:05:06.445 We were all in this together. Yes. 116 00:05:06.825 --> 00:05:08.605 And it made me realize, gosh, if, 117 00:05:08.665 --> 00:05:10.325 if I can go home on a Friday, 118 00:05:10.855 --> 00:05:13.125 leave my worries in that circle. 119 00:05:13.585 --> 00:05:16.365 Yes. I must had more of a life. Mm-hmm. 120 00:05:16.485 --> 00:05:18.605 At weekends, it wasn't there all the time. 121 00:05:19.225 --> 00:05:21.765 And because I had felt it mm-hmm. 122 00:05:22.145 --> 00:05:24.325 So strongly, I thought, imagine 123 00:05:24.325 --> 00:05:27.445 what happens if children feel it, if they feel heard 124 00:05:27.825 --> 00:05:30.405 and listened to and they feel part of mm-hmm. 125 00:05:30.565 --> 00:05:33.125 A circle. And nothing's changed in all these years. 126 00:05:33.455 --> 00:05:38.165 There was a big, um, symposium, uh, a big conference, 127 00:05:38.165 --> 00:05:41.085 international conference in Athens last year Yes. 128 00:05:41.385 --> 00:05:43.965 On what would help young people with mental health problems, 129 00:05:44.055 --> 00:05:45.445 which are so huge at the moment. 130 00:05:45.755 --> 00:05:48.245 Yeah. And of all the different interventions, 131 00:05:49.065 --> 00:05:50.925 the the one thing that helps children, 132 00:05:51.295 --> 00:05:52.925 young people more than anything is 133 00:05:52.925 --> 00:05:54.405 to strengthen peer relationships. 134 00:05:54.635 --> 00:05:58.405 Yeah. So strengthening the peer relationships is key. Yeah. 135 00:05:58.625 --> 00:06:00.925 So, you know, people can say, oh, well, it's, 136 00:06:00.925 --> 00:06:02.045 it's old, it's old hat. 137 00:06:02.305 --> 00:06:04.445 That's nonsense circle. It's not old hat. 138 00:06:04.465 --> 00:06:06.045 It absolutely needs reviving. 139 00:06:06.045 --> 00:06:09.445 It needs, it needs, um, vibrancy attached to it. 140 00:06:09.445 --> 00:06:10.805 It needs the safety attached to it. 141 00:06:10.825 --> 00:06:13.405 And never, never post covid. 142 00:06:13.745 --> 00:06:17.205 Has it been more important to, to get this back on again? 143 00:06:17.465 --> 00:06:20.085 So if I hadn't had that experience myself, 144 00:06:20.325 --> 00:06:24.485 I don't think I would have, um, I, I would've 145 00:06:25.115 --> 00:06:27.685 gone the trajectory that I went in my career, 146 00:06:27.825 --> 00:06:29.565 but it's a very patchwork quilt of a career. 147 00:06:29.605 --> 00:06:30.645 I did lots of other things, career, 148 00:06:30.645 --> 00:06:32.605 because I've, I'm very interested in things. 149 00:06:32.705 --> 00:06:37.125 And so, um, I've done other things that all melded together 150 00:06:37.225 --> 00:06:38.445 to make it more important. 151 00:06:39.025 --> 00:06:42.205 But my best schools, I have schools who I give a gold award 152 00:06:42.205 --> 00:06:45.525 to, who work hard on all aspects of an ecosystem model. 153 00:06:45.905 --> 00:06:48.285 My very best schools do have circle time for the adults. 154 00:06:48.705 --> 00:06:52.485 Um, uh, and it's, if you were in NHS 155 00:06:52.585 --> 00:06:55.005 or social work, you'd have supervision 156 00:06:55.145 --> 00:06:56.925 and supervision in a very good sense. 157 00:06:57.165 --> 00:06:59.565 A sense of how can I be the best I can be? 158 00:06:59.665 --> 00:07:01.325 Not what targets you've got to meet. 159 00:07:01.865 --> 00:07:05.165 So it's not, it's still misunderstood. 160 00:07:05.265 --> 00:07:07.965 It is still seen as something for early as children. Yeah. 161 00:07:08.075 --> 00:07:09.725 It's not seen as something that needs to go through 162 00:07:09.725 --> 00:07:11.405 to secondary or to the adults. 163 00:07:11.825 --> 00:07:14.845 So basically, I'm not sure I've managed 164 00:07:14.845 --> 00:07:16.725 to change anything. There you go. 165 00:07:17.515 --> 00:07:19.245 Been away. So, yeah, 166 00:07:19.995 --> 00:07:21.485 it's really interesting actually saying that 167 00:07:21.485 --> 00:07:23.165 because, um, I used to work 168 00:07:23.165 --> 00:07:25.005 with the children's centers in Tower Hamlets 169 00:07:25.005 --> 00:07:29.485 and, um, I went from working in a school, um, with a class, 170 00:07:30.145 --> 00:07:32.285 um, to then being like kind of looking 171 00:07:32.285 --> 00:07:34.125 after play for like a section of the borough 172 00:07:34.505 --> 00:07:35.725 and working with the children's centers. 173 00:07:35.905 --> 00:07:37.765 And it was such good practice. 174 00:07:37.985 --> 00:07:41.445 It was just amazing because we used to have monthly meetings 175 00:07:41.445 --> 00:07:44.565 where we would go and it would be the local doctor, um, 176 00:07:45.025 --> 00:07:47.885 the team around the child, kind of like in terms 177 00:07:48.045 --> 00:07:50.725 of like your social workers, like your speech 178 00:07:50.725 --> 00:07:52.485 and language therapists, like the people 179 00:07:52.485 --> 00:07:53.885 that were actually working on the ground 180 00:07:53.885 --> 00:07:56.165 with them in the children's centers and the play sessions. 181 00:07:56.305 --> 00:07:57.325 And we would all get together 182 00:07:57.425 --> 00:07:59.325 and we would talk about what was going on for that child 183 00:07:59.345 --> 00:08:01.325 and, and what was the story 184 00:08:01.705 --> 00:08:03.205 and what was the information that would, 185 00:08:03.215 --> 00:08:04.925 would be shared that would help all of us. 186 00:08:05.025 --> 00:08:06.525 And and it was interesting 187 00:08:06.805 --> 00:08:09.005 because there was such a huge chunk of our children 188 00:08:09.005 --> 00:08:11.805 that there were these big issues for, and things going on 189 00:08:11.805 --> 00:08:12.925 and stuff happened with families, 190 00:08:12.985 --> 00:08:14.525 and those are the exact same children 191 00:08:14.525 --> 00:08:15.845 that I'd been teaching in school. 192 00:08:16.425 --> 00:08:18.485 And I was like, if 80% of these parents 193 00:08:18.505 --> 00:08:20.045 and these families have got these things going on, 194 00:08:20.045 --> 00:08:22.405 and then 80% of that class would've had those issues, 195 00:08:22.545 --> 00:08:24.085 but those teachers don't know it. 196 00:08:24.835 --> 00:08:26.725 Like, there's all this stuff that was happening 197 00:08:26.725 --> 00:08:28.685 for those children, uh, and those families 198 00:08:28.685 --> 00:08:31.805 that just doesn't, doesn't reach schools in the same way. 199 00:08:31.925 --> 00:08:33.325 I don't think so. Yeah. 200 00:08:33.405 --> 00:08:35.605 I think there's a lot going on for families and children 201 00:08:35.825 --> 00:08:37.325 and that Yeah. I mean, 202 00:08:37.435 --> 00:08:41.845 It's, it's, the team around the child has been, uh, 203 00:08:41.845 --> 00:08:45.285 you know, started the whole idea was, was the Warnock report 204 00:08:45.285 --> 00:08:47.365 and that, and, and, and people were going to work on that 205 00:08:47.385 --> 00:08:48.485 and they never did work on it. 206 00:08:48.485 --> 00:08:50.365 Yeah. And then it's come back again and again. 207 00:08:50.705 --> 00:08:52.365 And it is, there is no other way 208 00:08:52.365 --> 00:08:55.285 that you can work other than the team around the child to, 209 00:08:55.285 --> 00:08:56.325 to really make a difference. 210 00:08:56.425 --> 00:08:58.965 But it's just political. There isn't enough money. 211 00:08:58.965 --> 00:09:01.365 There's no time. I, there's lots of schools now who have no, 212 00:09:01.785 --> 00:09:03.685 um, home liaison workers 213 00:09:04.025 --> 00:09:06.565 or even bringing who, who, who, who even be able 214 00:09:06.565 --> 00:09:08.325 to tell the teachers anything that's going on. 215 00:09:08.665 --> 00:09:10.085 So it's, it's, and, 216 00:09:10.105 --> 00:09:12.285 and yet we've got the huge rise of mental health 217 00:09:12.385 --> 00:09:13.565 for adults and for children. 218 00:09:13.785 --> 00:09:16.885 So what, what you experienced in Tower Hamlets, I mean, 219 00:09:16.885 --> 00:09:19.245 tower Hamlets had some very good things going at one stage. 220 00:09:19.305 --> 00:09:21.735 And, and where I was, it was, 221 00:09:21.875 --> 00:09:23.855 it was called in London then Ilia it was called. 222 00:09:24.235 --> 00:09:28.175 And, um, there was lots more money around and time, 223 00:09:28.795 --> 00:09:30.095 and those were in the air. 224 00:09:30.185 --> 00:09:32.295 Those were in the days pre-social media 225 00:09:32.725 --> 00:09:33.855 when everything was much easier. 226 00:09:34.075 --> 00:09:35.095 So goodness, 227 00:09:35.695 --> 00:09:36.975 whenever, you know, the things that we are talking 228 00:09:36.975 --> 00:09:38.695 about supervision Yes. 229 00:09:38.835 --> 00:09:42.255 Um, uh, people sharing knowledge, 230 00:09:42.575 --> 00:09:43.855 I think is the most important thing. 231 00:09:44.355 --> 00:09:47.215 And putting the heart, the child at the heart of everything, 232 00:09:47.915 --> 00:09:50.175 um, that's just not happening anymore. 233 00:09:50.555 --> 00:09:51.815 No, it's not. No, it's not. 234 00:09:51.815 --> 00:09:53.375 And it's really important, like you were said, 235 00:09:53.375 --> 00:09:55.495 with rise in mental health issues and mm-hmm. 236 00:09:55.495 --> 00:09:56.775 Like all of the issues after Covid 237 00:09:56.795 --> 00:09:58.855 and stuff, it's more important now than ever in a way. 238 00:09:59.045 --> 00:10:00.775 Yeah. But, but yeah, no, it is, 239 00:10:00.775 --> 00:10:02.215 it really needs to happen, doesn't it? I 240 00:10:02.215 --> 00:10:04.055 Mean, there are some schools doing lovely. 241 00:10:04.255 --> 00:10:06.215 I mean, there always, all across England, 242 00:10:06.215 --> 00:10:07.695 there are absolute fabulous people. 243 00:10:07.795 --> 00:10:10.375 Unsung here is just doing everything and they're wonderful. 244 00:10:10.755 --> 00:10:13.375 But there are some schools who've started, um, I, 245 00:10:13.535 --> 00:10:15.335 I can't remember which charity was started it, 246 00:10:15.335 --> 00:10:17.015 but it was, I can find out. 247 00:10:17.075 --> 00:10:19.585 But there's a school in Sheffield 248 00:10:20.205 --> 00:10:24.585 and, um, it had, it's got, it's led by parents for parents, 249 00:10:24.685 --> 00:10:26.705 and it's very much sort of based on a circle approach. 250 00:10:27.205 --> 00:10:31.465 So the parents are trained how to work with, um, 251 00:10:31.515 --> 00:10:34.825 other parents and, um, they, they can 252 00:10:35.435 --> 00:10:36.585 bring some of the support. 253 00:10:37.455 --> 00:10:39.835 And I think that's actually more important than anything 254 00:10:39.835 --> 00:10:41.475 because, um, some 255 00:10:41.475 --> 00:10:44.195 of the best circle times I've done has been with parents 256 00:10:44.415 --> 00:10:47.675 who are in all in the same situation together, 257 00:10:48.255 --> 00:10:50.275 but they've never been together Yes. 258 00:10:50.415 --> 00:10:51.475 In a group. Yes. 259 00:10:51.535 --> 00:10:53.795 And actually the ones who know all the information, 260 00:10:53.845 --> 00:10:56.595 which are the good, so, you know, which are the good avenues 261 00:10:56.595 --> 00:10:58.835 to get some grants, which are the good avenues to do this. 262 00:10:59.175 --> 00:11:02.235 Yes. They, they, they all support each other, so mm-hmm. 263 00:11:02.315 --> 00:11:07.195 You know, samples of, uh, people with similar interests or, 264 00:11:07.215 --> 00:11:10.235 or needs or whatever are just absolutely essential, 265 00:11:10.535 --> 00:11:12.395 but it doesn't happen. 266 00:11:13.055 --> 00:11:15.275 Circle times for parents really doesn't happen. 267 00:11:15.705 --> 00:11:18.035 Yeah. Keeping that kind of landscape in mind. 268 00:11:18.695 --> 00:11:20.275 Um, and kind of thinking about 269 00:11:20.275 --> 00:11:21.275 what you're saying about adults, 270 00:11:21.275 --> 00:11:23.155 and I know I was listening to another one of your talks 271 00:11:23.315 --> 00:11:25.675 and you were saying that you kind of can't do anything 272 00:11:25.675 --> 00:11:27.555 for the children if you're not looking after yourself first. 273 00:11:27.825 --> 00:11:32.435 Yeah. Like mental health of teachers too is huge, I think. 274 00:11:32.585 --> 00:11:34.075 Yeah. And the workload on them 275 00:11:34.415 --> 00:11:35.995 and the stuff that they have to do 276 00:11:35.995 --> 00:11:37.395 and the way that they feel right now, it's, 277 00:11:37.425 --> 00:11:38.515 it's tough teaching. 278 00:11:38.625 --> 00:11:41.355 It's tough. But what's kind of your advice, 279 00:11:41.745 --> 00:11:42.875 like in that area? 280 00:11:43.025 --> 00:11:45.955 What would, what would your thoughts be on that to schools? 281 00:11:46.995 --> 00:11:51.715 I mean, it's, it, you've got to spend time. Yeah. 282 00:11:51.895 --> 00:11:54.685 Um, everyone is doing lots of different things 283 00:11:55.225 --> 00:11:56.405 and they sort of say, well, let's go 284 00:11:56.405 --> 00:11:58.245 and do some, um, mindfulness, 285 00:11:58.265 --> 00:12:00.205 or let's go do some massage, or let's go and do something. 286 00:12:00.345 --> 00:12:02.245 And people are tasting lots of different things. 287 00:12:02.825 --> 00:12:07.325 And, but actually you've, you've actually got to, 288 00:12:08.345 --> 00:12:12.405 if you've signed up to be in a school, you've signed up 289 00:12:12.405 --> 00:12:13.805 to be in a good mood with children. 290 00:12:13.855 --> 00:12:15.125 Right. That's, that's your job. 291 00:12:15.225 --> 00:12:17.285 That's in the, that's in the contract. Mm-hmm. 292 00:12:17.385 --> 00:12:19.405 So you've, you, you, you have a duty. 293 00:12:19.755 --> 00:12:21.205 It's not just an extra added 294 00:12:21.335 --> 00:12:22.805 extra that's gonna make me happy. 295 00:12:22.805 --> 00:12:25.325 You actually have a duty to to, to look after yourself. 296 00:12:25.325 --> 00:12:27.125 Mm-hmm. The school needs to help with that. 297 00:12:27.905 --> 00:12:31.445 And again, the schools I admire most other schools where, 298 00:12:31.705 --> 00:12:35.205 um, uh, gosh, 299 00:12:35.325 --> 00:12:36.885 I always get go on this word. 300 00:12:37.265 --> 00:12:40.725 Um, when you, you know, when you do work things 301 00:12:40.725 --> 00:12:44.935 and you have to check it, uh, you have to work, you have 302 00:12:44.935 --> 00:12:46.575 to go through all your targets and they tell you about it. 303 00:12:46.575 --> 00:12:48.175 What's that? Oh, well, 304 00:12:48.175 --> 00:12:49.815 you have like professional development meetings. 305 00:12:49.845 --> 00:12:51.135 Yeah. It's a professional development. 306 00:12:51.405 --> 00:12:52.695 It's beginning with a 307 00:12:54.235 --> 00:12:56.615 and appraisal, gosh, okay. 308 00:12:56.685 --> 00:12:58.175 When you have appraisal. Yes. 309 00:12:58.795 --> 00:13:01.615 Um, actually seems to fade away in some schools 310 00:13:01.615 --> 00:13:02.735 and hasn't been around for ages. 311 00:13:02.735 --> 00:13:05.095 Mm-hmm. All, um, that I really love. 312 00:13:05.525 --> 00:13:09.575 They appraise that the, uh, teachers on their own 313 00:13:10.375 --> 00:13:12.175 personal, um, care plan 314 00:13:12.515 --> 00:13:14.815 and what they're doing for themselves as well as 315 00:13:15.205 --> 00:13:17.655 what they're, as what work issues are happening. 316 00:13:17.755 --> 00:13:19.295 So it, it's seen they've given, 317 00:13:19.485 --> 00:13:20.735 they've given them the tools. 318 00:13:20.975 --> 00:13:23.295 I mean, I've done, I've made mental health webinars. 319 00:13:23.295 --> 00:13:25.655 I've been doing mental health for years and years. 320 00:13:25.915 --> 00:13:28.975 And, um, there, there are things that you can do that are, 321 00:13:29.995 --> 00:13:31.365 well, you know, there's, there's things, 322 00:13:31.365 --> 00:13:32.725 there's five wells for wellbeing. 323 00:13:32.725 --> 00:13:33.965 It's, it's all in a mental health webinar, 324 00:13:34.105 --> 00:13:36.805 but you actually do need to make a care plan for yourself. 325 00:13:36.945 --> 00:13:38.365 Mm-hmm. And you do need someone 326 00:13:38.745 --> 00:13:40.525 who cares whether you're keeping to it or not. 327 00:13:40.985 --> 00:13:42.605 Now, you could have, you know, you need a, 328 00:13:42.925 --> 00:13:44.245 a mentor in an ideal world. 329 00:13:44.545 --> 00:13:47.245 Mm-hmm. Uh, staff should have a staff mentor 330 00:13:47.625 --> 00:13:48.845 and equally help each other. 331 00:13:49.465 --> 00:13:50.805 Or you can do it, um, 332 00:13:50.865 --> 00:13:52.805 in small circles and say how I'm doing. 333 00:13:52.985 --> 00:13:56.015 Mm-hmm. But I think it's about it, it's about saying, 334 00:13:56.085 --> 00:13:59.215 this is part of your job is, uh, is 335 00:13:59.215 --> 00:14:02.695 to make sure you put time into creating these, um, 336 00:14:03.455 --> 00:14:05.815 a mental health care plan, literally for yourself. 337 00:14:06.195 --> 00:14:07.735 It is not just mental health. It's actually, 338 00:14:08.555 --> 00:14:10.085 it's getting the balance in your life. 339 00:14:10.115 --> 00:14:11.365 It's, it's spiritual health. 340 00:14:11.675 --> 00:14:13.645 It's creative health, it's emotional 341 00:14:13.645 --> 00:14:14.765 health, it's physical health. 342 00:14:15.155 --> 00:14:18.045 It's getting all of those balanced into your life. Yes. 343 00:14:18.045 --> 00:14:21.725 Um, and, but it's conscious. It's written up. 344 00:14:22.065 --> 00:14:24.045 You have to take, and you need someone to care. 345 00:14:24.265 --> 00:14:26.885 You need someone to know. It's great in a school 346 00:14:27.465 --> 00:14:30.965 if somebody was actually saying, how's it going? 347 00:14:31.305 --> 00:14:35.125 So we have staff meetings where we'll say, um, I'm pleased 348 00:14:35.125 --> 00:14:36.685 with myself this week because I manage this 349 00:14:36.685 --> 00:14:38.245 and we, we'll use the eggs to go round, 350 00:14:38.265 --> 00:14:40.325 or one thing I'm gonna do for myself next week. 351 00:14:40.625 --> 00:14:42.045 So you keep it on the agenda. 352 00:14:42.345 --> 00:14:45.285 If you have a round, uh, with an egg, it's only one, 353 00:14:45.345 --> 00:14:46.485 it only takes two minutes, 354 00:14:46.825 --> 00:14:48.925 but it puts the thing right back up on the agenda 355 00:14:48.925 --> 00:14:50.045 again because you've heard it. 356 00:14:50.955 --> 00:14:53.205 It's you. And you start your next staff meeting 357 00:14:53.505 --> 00:14:55.245 and you say, how did it go last week? 358 00:14:55.305 --> 00:14:58.685 So we have the egg back and we say, no, I let myself down. 359 00:14:58.765 --> 00:15:00.885 I didn't do it, but yes, I did do it. And yes, I did. 360 00:15:00.985 --> 00:15:02.565 So it's, it's about keeping it high. 361 00:15:03.185 --> 00:15:06.645 And the only way you can do that for me is that just one 362 00:15:06.645 --> 00:15:08.885 of the, um, things of circle time. 363 00:15:08.885 --> 00:15:11.005 It's just the round, the round with the egg. 364 00:15:11.195 --> 00:15:13.165 It's, it's a reflection on experience 365 00:15:13.305 --> 00:15:16.645 and it, it brings everything up to the fore again. 366 00:15:17.185 --> 00:15:18.845 Yes. Yeah. No, that's really important. 367 00:15:18.865 --> 00:15:21.525 And I think, like you said, it's just giving it importance 368 00:15:21.545 --> 00:15:23.525 and giving it support and making it a real 369 00:15:23.525 --> 00:15:24.645 kind of push for everybody. 370 00:15:25.445 --> 00:15:27.525 'cause often I think there is just little nods given 371 00:15:27.745 --> 00:15:30.805 to stuff, and then it's like back to the back to back 372 00:15:30.805 --> 00:15:33.125 to the SATs, back to Ofsted, back to, so, yeah. 373 00:15:33.155 --> 00:15:36.205 Yeah. I think that is, that's really key to say. But yeah. 374 00:15:36.465 --> 00:15:39.045 Um, in terms of the children, I know one of your kind 375 00:15:39.045 --> 00:15:43.285 of big, um, loves is, um, in terms of listening to children 376 00:15:43.905 --> 00:15:45.965 and our byline is that everybody has a story. 377 00:15:46.545 --> 00:15:50.045 So, um, like what we do is all about giving children a space 378 00:15:50.045 --> 00:15:52.125 to tell their story and giving them the tools to do that. 379 00:15:52.945 --> 00:15:54.485 Um, in terms of your work, can you talk 380 00:15:54.485 --> 00:15:56.845 through like the importance of listening to children 381 00:15:57.505 --> 00:15:59.165 and what teachers can do to support this? 382 00:15:59.885 --> 00:16:03.425 Hmm. It, it, it's, 383 00:16:05.455 --> 00:16:07.035 it is, we're back to the whole thing. 384 00:16:07.215 --> 00:16:08.715 How can you listen to others if 385 00:16:08.715 --> 00:16:09.755 you're not looking after yourself? 386 00:16:09.755 --> 00:16:11.555 Because you almost don't want to hear anymore. 387 00:16:11.895 --> 00:16:12.995 You, you can't take anymore 388 00:16:12.995 --> 00:16:14.715 and your head's full of everything. 389 00:16:14.715 --> 00:16:16.755 So until we get the teachers, I mean, 390 00:16:16.755 --> 00:16:21.435 never have teachers had more, uh, pressure or stress with 391 00:16:21.935 --> 00:16:24.635 or surrounded by parents pressure and stress. 392 00:16:24.895 --> 00:16:28.395 Mm-hmm. It's too much in schools, I think now, 393 00:16:28.815 --> 00:16:31.275 and what children most need is the one that's the hardest 394 00:16:31.335 --> 00:16:34.435 to give, which is to, uh, let go of your own ego 395 00:16:34.495 --> 00:16:36.195 and really listen to children. 396 00:16:36.535 --> 00:16:39.355 Mm-hmm. Um, and, and really pick up what they're not saying 397 00:16:39.355 --> 00:16:40.515 and pick up their body language 398 00:16:40.515 --> 00:16:44.355 and pick up their, uh, all the signs now that, that, that, 399 00:16:44.985 --> 00:16:46.595 that takes somebody who's grounded 400 00:16:47.495 --> 00:16:50.795 and has actually topped up their own wells and, and, 401 00:16:50.815 --> 00:16:52.635 and wants to draw out who wants 402 00:16:52.635 --> 00:16:55.555 to draw out more if you are actually just surviving. 403 00:16:55.855 --> 00:16:57.835 Yes. And that's what teachers are doing, but it's too much. 404 00:16:57.945 --> 00:17:00.155 There's too much to do at the moment. 405 00:17:00.265 --> 00:17:02.075 It's just how it is post covid. 406 00:17:02.495 --> 00:17:05.995 And, um, it's, but what children most need is listening. 407 00:17:06.615 --> 00:17:10.475 Um, so yes, this, this for me, you embed listening systems. 408 00:17:11.735 --> 00:17:13.635 Um, circle time is one listening system 409 00:17:13.945 --> 00:17:16.675 what you are teaching, and it's, it's for you really. 410 00:17:17.265 --> 00:17:18.955 It's the best one for, for teachers 411 00:17:18.955 --> 00:17:20.715 because it's group listening. 412 00:17:20.835 --> 00:17:22.275 So you are teaching children how 413 00:17:22.275 --> 00:17:23.315 to listen to other children. 414 00:17:23.775 --> 00:17:26.955 So you are teaching children to, um, support each other. 415 00:17:26.975 --> 00:17:28.795 So you're teaching children to say, well, 416 00:17:28.795 --> 00:17:29.915 would it help to try this? 417 00:17:29.915 --> 00:17:31.795 Would you to be solution focused? 418 00:17:32.295 --> 00:17:33.675 You are teaching children to have 419 00:17:34.015 --> 00:17:38.075 to make up fun stories together just to rise 420 00:17:38.085 --> 00:17:41.365 above the everyday difficulties and have some fun 421 00:17:41.385 --> 00:17:43.485 and some magic and within that circle. 422 00:17:44.345 --> 00:17:47.365 Um, but I fairly recently post Covid, 423 00:17:47.565 --> 00:17:51.565 I was doing a circle time in a, in a very, very complex, um, 424 00:17:51.635 --> 00:17:54.325 unhappy area for, uh, for children. 425 00:17:54.425 --> 00:17:58.015 And the children were, um, they just rose to it. 426 00:17:58.015 --> 00:17:59.855 They just hadn't been listened to for ages. 427 00:17:59.855 --> 00:18:02.095 And they were really giving it their all, 428 00:18:02.095 --> 00:18:03.695 they were extraordinarily wonderful. 429 00:18:03.955 --> 00:18:05.855 And then I always ask teachers to observe, 430 00:18:05.965 --> 00:18:08.295 because, you know, to sit outside a circle 431 00:18:08.355 --> 00:18:10.975 and not speak for an hour is very good for teachers. 432 00:18:11.155 --> 00:18:13.335 Yes. Because they, they're not, they can't say yes, 433 00:18:13.355 --> 00:18:16.995 but so secondary teachers, I, I would never take, 434 00:18:17.095 --> 00:18:19.475 put any work in there unless they sit around that circle 435 00:18:19.615 --> 00:18:21.235 and listen to their children for an hour. 436 00:18:21.815 --> 00:18:25.515 Um, but, um, anyway, so the circle was very good. 437 00:18:26.415 --> 00:18:31.195 And, um, and then afterwards, um, that I, I was talking 438 00:18:31.195 --> 00:18:32.435 to their teacher and she was crying 439 00:18:33.495 --> 00:18:35.995 and I, I said, you know what, what is it? 440 00:18:36.015 --> 00:18:38.155 And she said she'd never seen them like that. 441 00:18:38.175 --> 00:18:39.355 She didn't know it was possible 442 00:18:39.355 --> 00:18:40.555 for children to think like that. 443 00:18:40.555 --> 00:18:42.915 She didn't know it was possible that they were able to 444 00:18:43.535 --> 00:18:45.595 engage and support each other like that. 445 00:18:45.655 --> 00:18:48.755 Mm-hmm. And then it turns out this poor younger, I mean, 446 00:18:48.755 --> 00:18:50.075 she's only just fresh out. 447 00:18:50.125 --> 00:18:51.355 She's a probationer 448 00:18:51.895 --> 00:18:54.515 and she's had, she'd done all her training online. 449 00:18:54.895 --> 00:18:57.715 Wow. So she hadn't even been in schools. Wow. 450 00:18:57.895 --> 00:19:00.035 You know, it's, it's, it's how the training had been. 451 00:19:00.175 --> 00:19:01.955 And she was feeling so out of her depth, 452 00:19:02.255 --> 00:19:04.195 they'd given her one of the most difficult 453 00:19:04.195 --> 00:19:05.835 classes, most complex. 454 00:19:06.535 --> 00:19:09.675 And she needed, she was really in a, you know, 455 00:19:09.675 --> 00:19:11.475 needed some support and mentoring and, and, 456 00:19:11.535 --> 00:19:14.475 and, um, uh, love actually. 457 00:19:15.015 --> 00:19:16.715 And then I went out into the playground having, 458 00:19:17.515 --> 00:19:18.635 'cause I always have to go in the playground 459 00:19:18.635 --> 00:19:19.715 to see how good a school is. 460 00:19:20.295 --> 00:19:23.395 And, um, the little girl, one little girl came up 461 00:19:23.395 --> 00:19:26.875 to me from her class, and she's really unkempt, you know, 462 00:19:26.875 --> 00:19:30.915 really greasy hair, just, just unkempt and sad looking. 463 00:19:31.055 --> 00:19:33.715 And she just, oh, she's, her face was a light. Oh. 464 00:19:33.715 --> 00:19:35.235 She's like, I did love your circle time. 465 00:19:35.675 --> 00:19:37.075 I thought, oh, thank you. She said, yeah. 466 00:19:37.075 --> 00:19:40.915 She said, because it felt like you'd given me a family. 467 00:19:41.375 --> 00:19:42.595 Family. Oh. Oh. 468 00:19:43.115 --> 00:19:46.635 I thought, I'm gonna try now. Oh, bless her. 469 00:19:46.775 --> 00:19:48.155 And it felt like you'd given a family. 470 00:19:48.215 --> 00:19:50.395 And there's something true about that. 471 00:19:50.495 --> 00:19:54.495 If you are, I used to teach on a master's and mm-hmm. 472 00:19:54.495 --> 00:19:55.575 People action research. 473 00:19:56.355 --> 00:20:01.055 And what happens is if you have a circle that you go to 474 00:20:01.055 --> 00:20:02.855 where you are treated with deep respect, 475 00:20:03.105 --> 00:20:04.455 where nobody puts you down. 476 00:20:04.555 --> 00:20:07.255 Mm-hmm. You're having reinforced your self image, it's, 477 00:20:07.355 --> 00:20:09.135 we have what we call significant others, 478 00:20:09.225 --> 00:20:11.935 which would be Carl Rogers psychology. 479 00:20:12.275 --> 00:20:16.175 But if a group behaves in a positive, warm way, 480 00:20:16.555 --> 00:20:18.775 the whole group, it's called a generalized other. 481 00:20:19.115 --> 00:20:20.935 So that mirror is reflecting back to 482 00:20:20.935 --> 00:20:22.335 that child, you are interesting. 483 00:20:22.395 --> 00:20:23.975 We like you, you are part of the group. 484 00:20:24.475 --> 00:20:26.815 And you can build your self esteem through 485 00:20:27.335 --> 00:20:28.855 a very well handled group. 486 00:20:29.005 --> 00:20:30.855 It's not just only parents 487 00:20:30.995 --> 00:20:34.575 or individuals that can actually build up a child's, um, 488 00:20:35.845 --> 00:20:38.815 self, uh, you know, resilience and self-esteem. 489 00:20:39.315 --> 00:20:41.055 So she is right. 490 00:20:41.355 --> 00:20:43.815 She touched it when she said, you gave me a family, 491 00:20:44.315 --> 00:20:45.415 you can make a family. 492 00:20:45.995 --> 00:20:47.195 Um, and it is a place place 493 00:20:47.195 --> 00:20:49.275 where teachers can actually themselves. 494 00:20:49.415 --> 00:20:51.675 It doesn't exhaust them. It gives them something back. 495 00:20:52.415 --> 00:20:53.715 And one of the worst things 496 00:20:53.715 --> 00:20:55.675 that's missing at the moment is laughter and fun, 497 00:20:55.825 --> 00:20:58.275 because everyone's becoming like, gotta, gotta cope, 498 00:20:58.275 --> 00:20:59.475 gotta face, got no time for that. 499 00:20:59.575 --> 00:21:01.715 Got no time. And it's the one thing they all need 500 00:21:01.715 --> 00:21:03.755 to be doing is to be laughing and having some fun, 501 00:21:03.755 --> 00:21:06.155 because it makes everything worthwhile 502 00:21:06.185 --> 00:21:07.715 then. But they're really not 503 00:21:08.465 --> 00:21:09.465 Well, they're not. No. Well, 504 00:21:09.465 --> 00:21:11.435 it's one of the things we hear actually more often 505 00:21:11.435 --> 00:21:13.835 with tell's toolkit is that the teachers will say, 506 00:21:14.315 --> 00:21:15.955 I feel like the children have really got 507 00:21:15.955 --> 00:21:17.035 to know my sense of humor. 508 00:21:17.345 --> 00:21:19.275 Intel's toolkit lessons that like, 509 00:21:19.275 --> 00:21:21.995 when we do a story together, that I'm being silly 510 00:21:21.995 --> 00:21:24.155 and having fun with them and there's no planning. 511 00:21:24.175 --> 00:21:26.795 And we just go with the flow and we're doing stuff together. 512 00:21:27.335 --> 00:21:30.435 And they say, for me, I feel like that necessarily isn't, 513 00:21:30.435 --> 00:21:31.955 necess isn't coming across in some 514 00:21:31.955 --> 00:21:33.195 of the other things they have to do, but, 515 00:21:33.615 --> 00:21:34.995 but that's what they enjoy about it. 516 00:21:35.175 --> 00:21:37.155 So, so actually in some of these sessions, 517 00:21:37.155 --> 00:21:39.075 like your circle times that you're doing that often 518 00:21:39.075 --> 00:21:40.635 that's reflecting back on the teacher too. 519 00:21:40.635 --> 00:21:43.315 That they're feeling that they're part of that family. 520 00:21:43.615 --> 00:21:44.835 So yeah. That's lovely. Yes. 521 00:21:44.975 --> 00:21:46.795 That's nice. They're part of that. 522 00:21:47.175 --> 00:21:49.035 So that's one, that's one listening system, 523 00:21:49.035 --> 00:21:51.825 which is your group listening system. 524 00:21:52.125 --> 00:21:55.825 And then, but one of the issues of circle time is that one 525 00:21:55.825 --> 00:21:58.305 of the, you, you need emotionally safe circle times. 526 00:21:58.315 --> 00:22:00.145 There can be some very dodgy circle times. 527 00:22:00.605 --> 00:22:02.705 Um, and there were in the sixties and seventies 528 00:22:02.705 --> 00:22:06.305 and for, they, they, uh, there was nothing, no methods 529 00:22:06.325 --> 00:22:08.145 of safety to make sure it didn't go too deep 530 00:22:08.165 --> 00:22:09.785 or that people's reputations were kept 531 00:22:09.785 --> 00:22:10.865 safe or anything like that. 532 00:22:11.125 --> 00:22:13.505 So now you have, I won't go into it now, 533 00:22:13.505 --> 00:22:17.105 but very strict, um, uh, uh, 534 00:22:17.535 --> 00:22:19.305 very strict guidelines when you're doing it. 535 00:22:19.765 --> 00:22:21.785 So one of the most important things in circle time, 536 00:22:22.085 --> 00:22:24.545 the most important ground rule to keep it safe is 537 00:22:24.545 --> 00:22:27.545 that no child may mention anyone's name in a negative way. 538 00:22:28.765 --> 00:22:30.225 So this means that they cannot 539 00:22:30.865 --> 00:22:32.065 denounce another child in the class. 540 00:22:32.095 --> 00:22:34.145 They can't say anything about their parents. 541 00:22:35.175 --> 00:22:36.625 It's a way of keeping it safe. 542 00:22:37.805 --> 00:22:41.665 Um, so they're learning not to get, to stick with the issues 543 00:22:41.805 --> 00:22:43.825 and not to get personal about things. 544 00:22:44.765 --> 00:22:48.425 But that goes against what a school's behavior policy is 545 00:22:48.425 --> 00:22:50.145 because, uh, bullying, anti-bullying policy, 546 00:22:50.665 --> 00:22:52.825 'cause we need to know that children can take difficult 547 00:22:52.825 --> 00:22:55.305 issues to their adults in the school. 548 00:22:56.325 --> 00:22:57.705 So you need 549 00:22:57.705 --> 00:23:00.185 to set up another listening system at the same time, 550 00:23:00.305 --> 00:23:02.425 A circle time, which I always call bubble time, 551 00:23:02.935 --> 00:23:05.065 because the idea is 552 00:23:05.495 --> 00:23:08.785 that bubble time you re it is really lovely, relaxed, 553 00:23:09.045 --> 00:23:10.905 but focused listening on another person. 554 00:23:11.125 --> 00:23:13.065 So if I'm working with very young children, 555 00:23:13.285 --> 00:23:16.345 our blow a beautiful bubble, and we all look at the bubble 556 00:23:16.685 --> 00:23:19.585 and we are looking up and I say, imagine if you 557 00:23:19.585 --> 00:23:20.865 and I are in that bubble, 558 00:23:21.245 --> 00:23:23.785 and I'm listening to you, you're listening to me. 559 00:23:23.795 --> 00:23:25.905 We're having a beautiful listening time. 560 00:23:26.405 --> 00:23:28.385 And then in front of all the other children, I pop it 561 00:23:28.525 --> 00:23:30.025 and I say, now, children, that's 562 00:23:30.025 --> 00:23:31.665 what happens when you interrupt people. 563 00:23:32.365 --> 00:23:35.185 You pop the bubble of beautiful listening. 564 00:23:35.605 --> 00:23:37.545 So if you want bubble time with your teacher 565 00:23:37.645 --> 00:23:40.825 or me, then you would leave that person in that bubble. 566 00:23:41.125 --> 00:23:43.305 You carry on for a little while, whatever you are doing. 567 00:23:43.405 --> 00:23:45.645 So I just try and get them to have a respect 568 00:23:45.645 --> 00:23:46.725 that when people are in the bubble, 569 00:23:46.725 --> 00:23:47.925 they actually have a real bubble. 570 00:23:48.235 --> 00:23:50.815 It's like a, you know, a bubble 571 00:23:50.815 --> 00:23:52.735 that's made you put it on a stick 572 00:23:52.735 --> 00:23:54.535 or put it on a put it up behind you 573 00:23:54.555 --> 00:23:55.855 so the children know you're in the bubble. 574 00:23:56.115 --> 00:23:57.495 But the thing that keeps it safe 575 00:23:58.035 --> 00:23:59.975 is you only have a one minute sand timer 576 00:23:59.975 --> 00:24:01.295 or a two minute sand timer. 577 00:24:01.475 --> 00:24:04.055 So we know how long they've got to wait. 578 00:24:04.355 --> 00:24:06.055 The children know how long they've got with you. 579 00:24:06.055 --> 00:24:08.855 Because one of the worst things you can do for children is 580 00:24:08.855 --> 00:24:10.775 to make it look as though you've got all the time in the 581 00:24:10.775 --> 00:24:11.935 world and they're opening up. 582 00:24:12.675 --> 00:24:15.535 Um, and then in circle, in bubble time, I say to them, 583 00:24:15.825 --> 00:24:18.895 don't forget, if you ever tell me anything that worries me, 584 00:24:19.135 --> 00:24:20.335 I may have to take it further. 585 00:24:21.075 --> 00:24:22.935 So if you tell me anything worries 586 00:24:22.935 --> 00:24:24.055 me, I will have to go further. 587 00:24:24.155 --> 00:24:27.295 So I, I, I'm, I don't let them ever think it's confidential, 588 00:24:27.295 --> 00:24:30.335 because it's not, teachers need to work, you know, 589 00:24:30.355 --> 00:24:31.575 in tandem with everyone else. 590 00:24:32.195 --> 00:24:34.375 So that would be a bubble listening. 591 00:24:34.375 --> 00:24:36.295 But I also, I can ask for bubble time. 592 00:24:36.355 --> 00:24:38.455 So I say children, you know, if I'm upset. 593 00:24:39.075 --> 00:24:41.415 So I need a little word with you. I've got my one minute. 594 00:24:41.775 --> 00:24:44.535 I was just very disappointed that yesterday that happened. 595 00:24:44.595 --> 00:24:46.215 Can you explain why it happened? 596 00:24:46.755 --> 00:24:48.095 So I can be disappointed, 597 00:24:48.555 --> 00:24:50.615 or I can say sorry if I've been a pain, 598 00:24:50.995 --> 00:24:53.215 the children when I need to say sorry, I, 599 00:24:53.335 --> 00:24:54.775 I shouted at them both at the same time. 600 00:24:55.355 --> 00:24:56.735 It was just 'cause I can be bothered. 601 00:24:56.955 --> 00:24:58.415 So I said, I'm sorry, sorry, I did that. 602 00:24:58.715 --> 00:25:01.375 So you have a little bridge back, so it's your bubble time. 603 00:25:01.675 --> 00:25:06.615 Mm-hmm. But there are children who, um, you know, 604 00:25:06.615 --> 00:25:07.775 don't feel good with eye contact. 605 00:25:08.085 --> 00:25:09.655 They don't feel good in a circle yet. 606 00:25:09.655 --> 00:25:11.015 They're, they're, they're very anxious. 607 00:25:11.595 --> 00:25:13.295 Um, and they, we can have something called 608 00:25:13.855 --> 00:25:15.455 a think book or a think box. 609 00:25:15.965 --> 00:25:17.655 Okay. And it's, it's confidential 610 00:25:17.655 --> 00:25:18.735 between them and their teacher. 611 00:25:18.765 --> 00:25:20.095 They can keep it in a safe place. 612 00:25:20.325 --> 00:25:21.655 They can draw their feelings. 613 00:25:21.975 --> 00:25:23.815 I mean, professor Lavers did fabulous work. 614 00:25:23.895 --> 00:25:25.535 I dunno if you know him with box of feelings 615 00:25:25.535 --> 00:25:27.175 with early years, um, to, 616 00:25:27.175 --> 00:25:28.975 to let children communicate non-verbally. 617 00:25:29.315 --> 00:25:31.815 So he did lovely work. Mine's much simpler than his. 618 00:25:32.195 --> 00:25:34.815 Um, just in that, you know, you can just go through some 619 00:25:36.175 --> 00:25:39.655 opposite emotions, like sad, happy, excited, frightened. 620 00:25:39.675 --> 00:25:41.255 And then you could have a little sticker. 621 00:25:41.255 --> 00:25:42.415 They just pull a sticker off 622 00:25:42.595 --> 00:25:44.495 and they could put their name on and put it in. 623 00:25:44.495 --> 00:25:46.175 Which means if they put a little circle, 624 00:25:46.635 --> 00:25:47.855 it means please talk to me. 625 00:25:48.395 --> 00:25:50.535 If it's, if it's no circle, um, 626 00:25:50.535 --> 00:25:52.215 then it just means please know this. 627 00:25:52.805 --> 00:25:54.135 Just know this is how I'm feeling. 628 00:25:54.595 --> 00:25:57.295 So that, you know, and you can do it as a book 629 00:25:57.295 --> 00:25:59.415 or you can do it as a box where they pop a little thing in. 630 00:25:59.835 --> 00:26:01.375 Um, and older children 631 00:26:01.995 --> 00:26:03.695 who don't understand things on the news 632 00:26:03.755 --> 00:26:07.415 or whatever, they're not, they don't, um, uh, 633 00:26:07.445 --> 00:26:08.295 they don't want to admit, 634 00:26:08.295 --> 00:26:09.415 they don't understand what's going on. 635 00:26:09.415 --> 00:26:11.455 They'll write a note about what's going on in the news 636 00:26:11.475 --> 00:26:12.695 and into the think box 637 00:26:12.715 --> 00:26:14.735 and say, can you put that in circle time miss? 638 00:26:15.235 --> 00:26:18.295 Or if they've got pressure from say other, other, 639 00:26:18.555 --> 00:26:20.215 the older ones have got pressure to smoke 640 00:26:20.275 --> 00:26:23.215 or something from their sibling, from their peers, 641 00:26:23.445 --> 00:26:24.975 they'll put, how do I deal with that? 642 00:26:25.355 --> 00:26:26.935 How do I deal with it and not lose my friends? 643 00:26:27.395 --> 00:26:30.095 So difficult issues will go into the box 644 00:26:30.395 --> 00:26:34.575 and you might actually mean that you do a little role play, 645 00:26:35.265 --> 00:26:36.975 completely made up role play, 646 00:26:37.035 --> 00:26:39.055 or you find a good poem that might 647 00:26:39.655 --> 00:26:42.175 stimulate a good discussion or you, you know, whatever. 648 00:26:43.395 --> 00:26:44.725 Yeah, yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. 649 00:26:44.725 --> 00:26:45.965 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. 650 00:26:45.965 --> 00:26:47.445 And that's some of these children 651 00:26:47.475 --> 00:26:49.805 with these big difficult issues that they wanna talk about. 652 00:26:49.915 --> 00:26:51.765 It's, it's not something you can bring up as a group. 653 00:26:52.115 --> 00:26:53.285 Like even as an adult. I 654 00:26:53.285 --> 00:26:54.285 Can't hear you there, Kate. 655 00:26:54.285 --> 00:26:56.245 I said even as an adult, like some of the, we've got lots 656 00:26:56.245 --> 00:26:57.605 of issues we wouldn't wanna bring up in a group. 657 00:26:58.105 --> 00:27:01.205 No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Yeah. 658 00:27:01.265 --> 00:27:02.405 No, there's a lot of things like that. 659 00:27:02.825 --> 00:27:05.805 Um, so in terms of kind of like, I know one 660 00:27:05.805 --> 00:27:07.245 of the other things that's like a big issue 661 00:27:07.245 --> 00:27:08.485 that you are an advocate of, 662 00:27:08.485 --> 00:27:09.845 and I know we spoke about this before. 663 00:27:10.025 --> 00:27:11.445 I'd love to hear your thoughts on play 664 00:27:11.755 --> 00:27:14.125 because I think it's such a massive opportunity 665 00:27:14.185 --> 00:27:17.365 for listening to children and also to staff 666 00:27:17.585 --> 00:27:19.205 to enjoy playing with children. 667 00:27:19.905 --> 00:27:22.805 Um, and just kinda like what your thoughts are on that. 668 00:27:22.825 --> 00:27:25.605 And also you've obviously visited settings across the UK 669 00:27:25.625 --> 00:27:28.485 and the world, like maybe how you've seen play differ 670 00:27:28.785 --> 00:27:30.805 or some of the good examples of what's gone on. 671 00:27:30.945 --> 00:27:32.285 So just yeah, I'd love 672 00:27:32.285 --> 00:27:33.405 to kind of hear your thoughts on play. 673 00:27:33.405 --> 00:27:34.405 Yeah, 674 00:27:35.105 --> 00:27:37.285 It, it, I mean it's, it's fundamental 675 00:27:37.625 --> 00:27:39.285 to mental health is to play. 676 00:27:39.745 --> 00:27:42.085 Um, it's absolutely the research. 677 00:27:42.275 --> 00:27:44.685 It's, we can say these things glibly and talk about it, 678 00:27:44.685 --> 00:27:47.085 but actually there's bags of research behind everything 679 00:27:47.085 --> 00:27:48.365 that we're saying that you can. 680 00:27:48.545 --> 00:27:50.085 Um, and about the importance of play 681 00:27:50.425 --> 00:27:52.205 and play has got to become forefront. 682 00:27:52.225 --> 00:27:53.765 Now. It's got to go right to the front 683 00:27:53.765 --> 00:27:55.685 because the one time that you can actually help 684 00:27:55.915 --> 00:27:58.045 with mental health, when a child's playing a game 685 00:27:58.045 --> 00:27:59.965 and laughing, they're not thinking Mom's crossed with dad. 686 00:27:59.965 --> 00:28:01.525 They're not thinking, I haven't got a friend. 687 00:28:01.795 --> 00:28:02.845 They're in the moment. 688 00:28:03.065 --> 00:28:05.005 And that's called a mental health respite. 689 00:28:05.345 --> 00:28:08.125 It means you are not, um, clogged with it. 690 00:28:08.425 --> 00:28:11.725 So every time you are playing, you are in the moment 691 00:28:11.865 --> 00:28:15.125 and you have after play it some time 692 00:28:15.125 --> 00:28:17.005 before the voices come back in your head. 693 00:28:17.065 --> 00:28:18.805 So a definition of mental health is this. 694 00:28:18.805 --> 00:28:20.005 You've got these clacking voices. 695 00:28:20.165 --> 00:28:21.445 I haven't done this, I'm crossed with this 696 00:28:21.445 --> 00:28:22.565 that teacher's crossed with me. 697 00:28:22.565 --> 00:28:25.245 There's too many voices and it just exhausts you. 698 00:28:25.825 --> 00:28:27.805 Um, but when you play, you are, 699 00:28:27.905 --> 00:28:29.365 you've gone into a different level. 700 00:28:29.425 --> 00:28:31.325 So it's, it's really important for mental health 701 00:28:31.825 --> 00:28:35.645 and lot of, a lot of, um, I mean I've just been working in 702 00:28:36.225 --> 00:28:37.245 Dublin last week 703 00:28:37.245 --> 00:28:40.485 and they talk about playful learning at last. 704 00:28:40.705 --> 00:28:42.845 Mm-hmm. Every people are talking about playful learning. 705 00:28:42.845 --> 00:28:44.925 Maybe we actually, it's not just a play our thing. 706 00:28:45.135 --> 00:28:47.005 Maybe you can put into our learning and have fun. 707 00:28:47.505 --> 00:28:50.085 Um, but for adults to play, they need 708 00:28:50.085 --> 00:28:51.245 to be playful themselves. 709 00:28:51.465 --> 00:28:53.365 And that takes a lightness of being 710 00:28:53.715 --> 00:28:56.005 that still only comes if you're looking after yourself. 711 00:28:56.025 --> 00:28:59.245 If you're heavy with your own clacking voices in your head. 712 00:28:59.605 --> 00:29:01.125 I haven't done this and I'm fed up 713 00:29:01.125 --> 00:29:03.805 with my TA is not getting on with me, or whatever it is. 714 00:29:04.435 --> 00:29:08.005 It's how do they play? How can they be light, um, and play? 715 00:29:08.425 --> 00:29:10.885 So one is that you do need to look 716 00:29:10.885 --> 00:29:13.205 after yourself, so you've got some energy to do it. 717 00:29:13.625 --> 00:29:16.805 But the joy is that actually, I mean, in, 718 00:29:16.825 --> 00:29:18.685 in circle time you teach children to play 719 00:29:18.685 --> 00:29:21.485 because you, there are always games in circle time. 720 00:29:21.585 --> 00:29:23.525 So you are teaching them about turn taking 721 00:29:23.525 --> 00:29:25.765 because since Covid, all the social skills have gone 722 00:29:25.765 --> 00:29:28.645 that they don't know about turn taking, that they're very, 723 00:29:28.645 --> 00:29:29.965 some of them are very egocentric. 724 00:29:29.965 --> 00:29:31.805 They don't even realize any child next to them. 725 00:29:32.225 --> 00:29:34.005 Um, they're in a sort of state of being. 726 00:29:34.705 --> 00:29:37.245 Um, so you teach that in circle times. 727 00:29:37.245 --> 00:29:38.965 You're teaching how, how games work 728 00:29:38.985 --> 00:29:40.765 and sometimes we win, sometimes we lose 729 00:29:40.785 --> 00:29:42.965 and um, we have fun together and we laugh 730 00:29:43.065 --> 00:29:44.165 and it's all right to laugh. 731 00:29:44.705 --> 00:29:48.445 Um, so that's a good place to start for, for, for games. 732 00:29:48.865 --> 00:29:53.725 Um, but I have, um, uh, a really strong, um, 733 00:29:53.825 --> 00:29:55.565 and always have done that you need to pepper, 734 00:29:55.995 --> 00:29:58.765 literally pepper spice up your teaching 735 00:29:58.875 --> 00:30:00.485 with little games and activities. 736 00:30:00.665 --> 00:30:04.145 Mm-hmm. So, you know, I'm, I'm very clear that which, 737 00:30:04.175 --> 00:30:08.385 what skills I'm using in, um, in the games 738 00:30:08.385 --> 00:30:10.385 that I'm doing, what are the skills? 739 00:30:10.445 --> 00:30:12.865 And you need these skills. You are having games. 740 00:30:12.885 --> 00:30:13.945 You need these skills to learn. 741 00:30:14.005 --> 00:30:15.945 You need these skills to make relationships with. 742 00:30:16.045 --> 00:30:18.585 So it's a, it's a matter of saying when you've been playing 743 00:30:18.765 --> 00:30:21.225 and what, what skills were you using just now? 744 00:30:21.685 --> 00:30:23.785 And these are skills you're gonna use now in the next bit 745 00:30:23.785 --> 00:30:24.985 of lesson I'm going to do for you. 746 00:30:25.365 --> 00:30:27.345 Um, so you sort of spice it all up 747 00:30:27.495 --> 00:30:30.145 with tiny little peppery games, but you make sure that 748 00:30:30.145 --> 00:30:32.625 after each you say, what skills were you using just now? 749 00:30:33.005 --> 00:30:34.185 And that's really important. 750 00:30:34.565 --> 00:30:39.185 So that, that play across, I mean, it's play is fascinating. 751 00:30:40.265 --> 00:30:42.425 A, a wonderful couple, a middle aged couple called Mr. 752 00:30:42.425 --> 00:30:43.945 And Mrs. Opi, OPIE, 753 00:30:43.945 --> 00:30:45.225 I wish I could remember their first names. 754 00:30:45.725 --> 00:30:49.145 Um, they spent, I think, I dunno what was it, fifties 755 00:30:49.165 --> 00:30:51.545 or sixties, uh, that they went around the whole 756 00:30:51.545 --> 00:30:54.745 of the country, Scotland Island Wales, and um, English. 757 00:30:54.745 --> 00:30:57.265 And they collected all sorts of traditional games 758 00:30:58.055 --> 00:30:59.385 into two huge volumes 759 00:30:59.385 --> 00:31:01.065 that went into every library in England 760 00:31:01.425 --> 00:31:02.865 because it, they were endorsed. 761 00:31:03.205 --> 00:31:05.545 Um, and whether they've, I mean they've got dusty and old 762 00:31:05.605 --> 00:31:08.705 and whether they've been, um, reissued, I don't know, 763 00:31:09.535 --> 00:31:11.145 it's folk folklore or whatever. 764 00:31:11.145 --> 00:31:12.145 And they just collected. 765 00:31:12.885 --> 00:31:14.185 So the, and, 766 00:31:14.205 --> 00:31:17.945 but when I go to other countries, um, whereas for example, 767 00:31:18.265 --> 00:31:20.065 a tiny game that we play that was so good 768 00:31:20.065 --> 00:31:21.545 for our brain was jacks. 769 00:31:21.545 --> 00:31:23.225 Do you remember you used to throw, I dunno if you remember 770 00:31:23.225 --> 00:31:24.305 jacks, we'd throw up a ball 771 00:31:24.305 --> 00:31:26.145 and then catch the little metal things. 772 00:31:26.205 --> 00:31:28.545 Do you remember those? Ca like little things like that, 773 00:31:28.545 --> 00:31:31.145 like little tiny, really good game. 774 00:31:31.325 --> 00:31:33.625 But in, in, um, when I was working, um, 775 00:31:34.245 --> 00:31:36.025 in the Arab Emirates, um, 776 00:31:36.045 --> 00:31:37.985 it wasn't called Jacks, it's called Five Stones. 777 00:31:38.145 --> 00:31:39.585 'cause they would use stones from the, um, 778 00:31:39.585 --> 00:31:41.145 desert and they'd play it that way. 779 00:31:41.245 --> 00:31:44.225 So there's all sorts of, um, it's clapping. 780 00:31:44.225 --> 00:31:45.585 They'll have the same clapping games, 781 00:31:45.725 --> 00:31:47.705 but um, with different themes. 782 00:31:47.845 --> 00:31:50.105 So in Scotland it'll be about Mary Queen of Scots and, 783 00:31:50.105 --> 00:31:51.665 but in some other area it'll be another 784 00:31:51.665 --> 00:31:53.185 different type of one that they do. 785 00:31:53.285 --> 00:31:55.025 So this this rich, rich thing. 786 00:31:55.395 --> 00:31:58.265 Every area really should be collecting their games. 787 00:31:58.725 --> 00:32:01.745 Um, I mean I was very lucky I was in Belfast 788 00:32:01.765 --> 00:32:03.345 and they had a, went into the county hall 789 00:32:03.345 --> 00:32:04.385 and they had a collection 790 00:32:04.385 --> 00:32:07.145 of all their street games from sort of post-war 791 00:32:07.485 --> 00:32:11.145 and lovely old footage and the, um, of these games. 792 00:32:11.145 --> 00:32:13.185 And I thought actually every area should be 793 00:32:13.185 --> 00:32:14.745 collecting their own games. 794 00:32:15.245 --> 00:32:19.145 And when these old people go, we are not going 795 00:32:19.145 --> 00:32:20.185 to know unless we go. 796 00:32:20.285 --> 00:32:23.385 So one of my richest sources is to go 797 00:32:23.385 --> 00:32:25.345 to take children into older people's homes. 798 00:32:25.845 --> 00:32:28.345 Um, and they're the ones who know if I go say to people, 799 00:32:28.445 --> 00:32:30.865 do you know, 'cause they orange isn't then once everyone 800 00:32:30.945 --> 00:32:32.585 sings it, but then they dunno how it ends. 801 00:32:32.775 --> 00:32:37.585 They dunno, how does that end? Why, why does, um, you know? 802 00:32:37.585 --> 00:32:39.245 Mm-hmm. And it's in different places. 803 00:32:39.465 --> 00:32:41.725 It for different areas. 804 00:32:42.515 --> 00:32:44.365 They, they, they, they chuck them over with 805 00:32:44.365 --> 00:32:45.445 and they go on off to prison. 806 00:32:45.545 --> 00:32:47.325 You will go, we don't do that in another area. 807 00:32:47.865 --> 00:32:49.905 But it's only old people 808 00:32:50.085 --> 00:32:51.705 who tell you the endings of these things. 809 00:32:51.705 --> 00:32:53.825 They remember it because their long term memory comes back. 810 00:32:53.995 --> 00:32:55.945 Their short term memory, you know, what they had 811 00:32:55.945 --> 00:32:57.985 for breakfast is hard, long term memory. 812 00:32:58.585 --> 00:33:01.465 Fabulous with games because when they played 813 00:33:01.465 --> 00:33:02.545 those games, they were happy. 814 00:33:03.165 --> 00:33:05.585 And you, you crystallize that happiness 815 00:33:05.685 --> 00:33:06.985 and all of the endorphins 816 00:33:06.985 --> 00:33:09.145 that you felt when they sing it again with children, 817 00:33:09.495 --> 00:33:11.505 they get the same endorphins they felt when 818 00:33:11.505 --> 00:33:12.585 they were young come back. 819 00:33:12.845 --> 00:33:15.745 So memory releases the same endorphins that were sort of, 820 00:33:16.325 --> 00:33:19.625 um, yeah, the, the the, the game evoked. 821 00:33:19.845 --> 00:33:22.185 So it's so children going 822 00:33:22.185 --> 00:33:23.465 to older people is really important. 823 00:33:24.245 --> 00:33:28.985 Um, and, um, collecting games from your area as part 824 00:33:28.985 --> 00:33:31.105 of your Victorian project or whatever is really important. 825 00:33:31.925 --> 00:33:35.705 Um, and using games throughout the whole of your day, 826 00:33:36.175 --> 00:33:38.425 peppering, I call it, is really important. 827 00:33:39.205 --> 00:33:41.345 Um, then you have your big games. 828 00:33:41.925 --> 00:33:43.985 You know, in my happy world, um, 829 00:33:44.965 --> 00:33:47.205 I would have teachers teach the same playground games 830 00:33:47.865 --> 00:33:50.125 and so that when the children go out at lunchtime 831 00:33:50.425 --> 00:33:51.845 and we'd bring them midday in first 832 00:33:51.845 --> 00:33:53.045 with the teachers to teach. 833 00:33:53.105 --> 00:33:54.565 So they know the games children 834 00:33:54.665 --> 00:33:55.845 can always have somewhere to play. 835 00:33:55.905 --> 00:33:57.765 So no one's ever lonely. They'll know that game. 836 00:33:58.025 --> 00:33:59.205 All ages can play together. 837 00:33:59.585 --> 00:34:02.565 So that's, you know, the classic ones are really important 838 00:34:02.625 --> 00:34:04.655 as well as the new ones. 839 00:34:05.365 --> 00:34:06.735 Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. And old people 840 00:34:06.735 --> 00:34:07.895 are such a, a big resource. 841 00:34:07.895 --> 00:34:09.735 They're great resource. Yeah. 842 00:34:11.685 --> 00:34:13.175 They know children feel fabulous 843 00:34:13.175 --> 00:34:14.975 because they light up for children. 844 00:34:15.125 --> 00:34:17.175 They see a child, they light up. Yeah. 845 00:34:17.975 --> 00:34:19.335 I think Tara Ham did do some very 846 00:34:19.335 --> 00:34:20.455 good work on this, didn't it? 847 00:34:20.675 --> 00:34:24.255 Um, of, of bringing to, um, nurseries and I actually, 848 00:34:24.625 --> 00:34:27.615 Let's talk about nurseries Built the nursery next 849 00:34:27.615 --> 00:34:28.735 to the older people's home. 850 00:34:28.735 --> 00:34:29.735 Who is that? 851 00:34:30.415 --> 00:34:32.855 I know there's one just opened near my parents in Chester. 852 00:34:33.595 --> 00:34:35.775 Um, and I think there's quite a few now where they, 853 00:34:35.775 --> 00:34:36.935 where they have the nursery 854 00:34:36.935 --> 00:34:38.535 and the old people's home on the same site. 855 00:34:38.755 --> 00:34:41.815 Yes. I mean, that's just wonderful. It's such a, I mean, 856 00:34:43.155 --> 00:34:44.895 For the teachers too, to have extra adults 857 00:34:44.895 --> 00:34:47.015 around it are engaging with children and Yes. 858 00:34:47.415 --> 00:34:49.375 I just think for everybody, it's just such a 859 00:34:49.375 --> 00:34:50.695 winner. So Yeah. 860 00:34:50.695 --> 00:34:53.575 Yeah. I mean they, the older ones love it too though. 861 00:34:53.575 --> 00:34:55.975 They don't wanna be left out. So your year sixes love going 862 00:34:56.555 --> 00:34:57.695 and they, they love chatting 863 00:34:57.755 --> 00:35:00.095 and they love, they, you know, then they love 864 00:35:00.095 --> 00:35:01.735 that sending their little letters to them 865 00:35:01.755 --> 00:35:03.615 and then they love coming, doing circle time with them. 866 00:35:03.615 --> 00:35:06.215 So it's, it's for all children really as well. Yeah. 867 00:35:06.215 --> 00:35:08.295 That's it. It's true. Um, I just wanted 868 00:35:08.295 --> 00:35:09.455 to touch on puppets 869 00:35:09.645 --> 00:35:13.175 because, um, Intel's talk stories, we use a lot of puppets, 870 00:35:13.175 --> 00:35:14.575 so obviously you've got your characters 871 00:35:14.635 --> 00:35:16.095 and your props and things that come out. 872 00:35:16.355 --> 00:35:17.895 But also we use anything as a puppet. 873 00:35:17.995 --> 00:35:19.895 So this, we can make a pen come to life 874 00:35:19.995 --> 00:35:21.335 and move and dance and do things. 875 00:35:21.475 --> 00:35:23.975 But I just wondered if you could chat about the power 876 00:35:24.035 --> 00:35:27.535 of puppets and how to bring things to life 877 00:35:27.675 --> 00:35:29.535 and what the best ways are to do that. 878 00:35:29.535 --> 00:35:31.735 Because I think some staff struggle more than others 879 00:35:31.735 --> 00:35:34.455 with doing that and making things talk and, but yeah. 880 00:35:34.455 --> 00:35:36.415 What your, what your suggestions and, and 881 00:35:36.485 --> 00:35:37.485 Tips. I, I think, I 882 00:35:37.485 --> 00:35:38.205 mean it's, it's all 883 00:35:38.205 --> 00:35:39.365 to do with confidence really. 884 00:35:39.435 --> 00:35:42.445 Because it's, it's a big thing to put something on your, 885 00:35:42.985 --> 00:35:44.685 on your hand and believe in it yourself, 886 00:35:44.745 --> 00:35:46.365 but then you have to, to do it with the children 887 00:35:46.545 --> 00:35:49.285 to believe in that, that interaction at that moment. 888 00:35:50.185 --> 00:35:53.525 Um, I, there's a person, I dunno if you've come across her, 889 00:35:53.645 --> 00:35:56.125 I absolutely adore her work on puppets. 890 00:35:56.185 --> 00:35:58.205 Mm-hmm. Um, and I use her for, if, if, 891 00:35:58.225 --> 00:36:00.685 if anyone's interested, I will ask her 892 00:36:00.685 --> 00:36:01.805 to come and do a workshop. 893 00:36:02.065 --> 00:36:04.805 Um, because she's, she works particularly with, well, 894 00:36:04.805 --> 00:36:07.765 she works with all puppets, but it, she, 895 00:36:08.105 --> 00:36:10.205 and she is actually from, she was 896 00:36:10.775 --> 00:36:12.245 Tower Hamlet or someone else. 897 00:36:12.435 --> 00:36:15.565 Have you, have you come across Georgia Thorpe's work at th 898 00:36:16.475 --> 00:36:19.045 name, but she, she's extraordinary. 899 00:36:19.505 --> 00:36:21.845 And I have published her books, um, 900 00:36:21.945 --> 00:36:23.405 on the power of puppets actually. 901 00:36:23.745 --> 00:36:27.365 Yes. And, and hers, she does them all in all different ways. 902 00:36:27.745 --> 00:36:30.005 But what I really loved is that she has the courage 903 00:36:30.005 --> 00:36:34.805 to go into secondary and use puppets and, um, so for PSHE 904 00:36:35.105 --> 00:36:37.565 and she has the big puppets and they have problems 905 00:36:37.565 --> 00:36:40.285 and issues and the children advise these huge puppets 906 00:36:40.285 --> 00:36:42.085 that sit on her lap, you know, the ones with the hands in. 907 00:36:42.345 --> 00:36:46.125 But, um, and I said, well, how's it going Georgia? 908 00:36:46.545 --> 00:36:48.205 And she said, well, I think it must be going quite well. 909 00:36:48.205 --> 00:36:50.325 She said, because Year eight went to school council 910 00:36:50.505 --> 00:36:55.005 to complain they hadn't got puppets in their PS H mm-hmm. 911 00:36:55.005 --> 00:36:56.165 Which I thought was wonderful 912 00:36:56.195 --> 00:36:58.365 because no one had expected they would be furious, 913 00:36:58.395 --> 00:36:59.485 they didn't have puppets. 914 00:36:59.985 --> 00:37:02.485 Um, but that's just a one, a one-off thing I'm saying. 915 00:37:02.505 --> 00:37:05.005 So I think, um, all children, 916 00:37:06.065 --> 00:37:08.205 why they love them is if that person loves them. 917 00:37:08.205 --> 00:37:10.245 If you're slightly awkward with it, 918 00:37:10.265 --> 00:37:12.125 the children will pick up on that awkwardness. 919 00:37:12.825 --> 00:37:16.625 Um, I think there's a lot needed 920 00:37:17.215 --> 00:37:21.105 Kate on doing workshops for teachers playing with puppets. 921 00:37:21.135 --> 00:37:23.145 Yeah. I mean Georgia does them, I'm sure. 922 00:37:23.445 --> 00:37:25.665 Do, do you do them get playing with puppets 923 00:37:26.245 --> 00:37:27.585 and with your workshops? 924 00:37:28.085 --> 00:37:30.385 In terms of our training, there's lots of, 925 00:37:30.605 --> 00:37:32.105 so when they do the training, they have 926 00:37:32.105 --> 00:37:33.265 to have a go at telling stories 927 00:37:33.285 --> 00:37:35.825 and doing things together as a group together, the teachers. 928 00:37:35.885 --> 00:37:38.345 Mm-hmm. So there's lots of practice of moving things 929 00:37:38.445 --> 00:37:40.905 and um, when I've done little bits of training in person, 930 00:37:41.055 --> 00:37:42.945 I've done things where I, we get something out of our bag 931 00:37:42.965 --> 00:37:44.905 and we'll try to bring it to life and do stuff around that. 932 00:37:44.925 --> 00:37:46.625 But, but no, it's something I'd like 933 00:37:46.625 --> 00:37:48.105 to focus on more, to be honest. 934 00:37:48.445 --> 00:37:50.025 So yes. I mean, I really think if you, 935 00:37:50.025 --> 00:37:52.945 if you could meet Georgia, she she will do. 936 00:37:53.545 --> 00:37:57.575 'cause I, I mean the best series I've ever got is, um, 937 00:37:58.065 --> 00:37:59.735 these, they're called golden stories. 938 00:38:00.355 --> 00:38:02.775 Yes. Stories for gold. Stories for golden Rules. 939 00:38:02.795 --> 00:38:06.735 And they, they, I found this wonderful, um, uh, 940 00:38:07.145 --> 00:38:10.495 early years teacher and an early years ta who could, 941 00:38:10.605 --> 00:38:12.375 they're just, anyway, I dunno, they come across, 942 00:38:12.475 --> 00:38:13.775 but they're, they're, they're, they're based 943 00:38:13.775 --> 00:38:16.735 where we listen, we, we are kind, they're all of the values. 944 00:38:17.435 --> 00:38:19.535 And, um, they have little tiny finger puppets. 945 00:38:19.535 --> 00:38:23.415 So I wrote a book to go to, to show, it's a book on, um, 946 00:38:23.895 --> 00:38:27.135 a handbook on how to bring those big books alive, sort 947 00:38:27.135 --> 00:38:28.775 of using those little puppets and ideas. 948 00:38:29.515 --> 00:38:33.575 Um, and uh, it, it, that was helpful. 949 00:38:33.895 --> 00:38:35.485 I mean, I won't ever, I'm not not gonna go back 950 00:38:35.485 --> 00:38:36.725 to writing again in that way. 951 00:38:36.755 --> 00:38:38.445 It's, it's another, it's an era that's gone now. 952 00:38:38.445 --> 00:38:39.965 I haven't got the energy to do that anymore. 953 00:38:40.305 --> 00:38:43.125 But, um, it, it was very helpful to teachers 954 00:38:43.125 --> 00:38:45.445 to have ideas given to them about how to do it. 955 00:38:45.545 --> 00:38:47.245 And they would, so you could read the book 956 00:38:47.245 --> 00:38:50.205 and you'd waggle your little, your little tiny finger puppet 957 00:38:50.205 --> 00:38:52.805 that went with all the characters in the stories. 958 00:38:53.145 --> 00:38:54.525 So that was really nice. 959 00:38:55.065 --> 00:38:57.125 Um, so there is so much we can do 960 00:38:57.125 --> 00:38:58.365 and there's not enough that we're doing. 961 00:38:58.425 --> 00:39:01.045 But actually chil, I mean, it makes me smile 962 00:39:01.045 --> 00:39:03.725 because when I do, uh, say I had a head teacher, 963 00:39:03.725 --> 00:39:05.645 secondary head teacher's conference, just 964 00:39:05.645 --> 00:39:08.285 for the sheer naughtiness of it, I'll just say, well, in, 965 00:39:08.285 --> 00:39:09.885 you know, we do circle time in primary 966 00:39:09.985 --> 00:39:12.245 and we actually use puppets and you can see the, 967 00:39:12.505 --> 00:39:13.765 and then I get the puppets out 968 00:39:13.825 --> 00:39:17.365 and there's something so magnetic about a good puppet, 969 00:39:17.545 --> 00:39:20.325 the way it moves and the way it's a bit sad 970 00:39:20.425 --> 00:39:23.205 and the way it's, and they're all cra forward. 971 00:39:23.665 --> 00:39:25.205 The head teachers are all crazy 972 00:39:27.545 --> 00:39:29.045 And then suddenly they catch themselves 973 00:39:29.045 --> 00:39:30.085 and they go, yeah, yeah, yeah. 974 00:39:30.245 --> 00:39:31.645 But it wouldn't work for kids. 975 00:39:31.745 --> 00:39:34.525 Did and I, the number of times I, that wouldn't work 976 00:39:34.745 --> 00:39:36.005 for, it wouldn't work with our kids. 977 00:39:36.225 --> 00:39:38.725 If it's working for you with your little suit on 978 00:39:39.025 --> 00:39:41.885 and your, your your, your great big bag of worries 979 00:39:41.955 --> 00:39:44.205 that you've got in your head, yes, it would work 980 00:39:44.205 --> 00:39:46.845 for all children and it would work for your secondary kids. 981 00:39:47.905 --> 00:39:50.125 But it takes, again, it, you need time 982 00:39:50.265 --> 00:39:52.085 and everything we're talking about today, 983 00:39:52.085 --> 00:39:53.245 Katie, is time Kate. 984 00:39:53.265 --> 00:39:55.565 And we haven't got, the people haven't got time to play 985 00:39:55.665 --> 00:39:59.165 and have workshops and enjoy 986 00:40:00.225 --> 00:40:00.965 Yes. Playing 987 00:40:01.235 --> 00:40:02.445 Available to them yet. 988 00:40:02.545 --> 00:40:04.165 We, we just, we, you know, 989 00:40:04.165 --> 00:40:05.885 we're all talking about mental health, 990 00:40:06.105 --> 00:40:07.165 but the only thing 991 00:40:07.165 --> 00:40:09.725 that would give anybody mental health is have time to play. 992 00:40:10.755 --> 00:40:12.845 That would give them all time some mental health. 993 00:40:13.355 --> 00:40:14.645 It's true. It's true. 994 00:40:15.105 --> 00:40:17.485 Um, the only thing I was gonna to ask you, um, 995 00:40:17.945 --> 00:40:19.245 and I know it's obviously something 996 00:40:19.245 --> 00:40:21.485 that will come up a lot in circle time stories, uh, 997 00:40:21.485 --> 00:40:22.605 circle time, um, 998 00:40:22.865 --> 00:40:25.125 but in our stories we get a lot 999 00:40:25.125 --> 00:40:26.965 of violent things that come through. 1000 00:40:27.625 --> 00:40:29.485 Um, and I think it's something that children 1001 00:40:29.585 --> 00:40:33.205 and teachers are quite uncomfortable with, um, in terms 1002 00:40:33.205 --> 00:40:34.325 of how to manage that. 1003 00:40:34.585 --> 00:40:37.005 And we've done quite a bit in terms of our training, 1004 00:40:37.105 --> 00:40:39.085 and we've talked to lots of different people on webinars, 1005 00:40:39.085 --> 00:40:42.045 but I'd just kind of love to know how you handle this 1006 00:40:42.065 --> 00:40:44.165 and what your advice is to people when there's things 1007 00:40:44.165 --> 00:40:46.285 that come up that they're uncomfortable with 1008 00:40:46.305 --> 00:40:47.925 and they don't quite know how to handle. 1009 00:40:48.495 --> 00:40:50.165 Often astro is, is the violence, 1010 00:40:50.465 --> 00:40:52.605 but Yeah, like if you've come across that 1011 00:40:52.605 --> 00:40:54.005 and how you handle that, and 1012 00:40:54.825 --> 00:40:56.085 So can you just explain, 1013 00:40:56.185 --> 00:40:58.565 so if the the child was bringing would bring the violence 1014 00:40:58.715 --> 00:40:59.805 into the story, can you just 1015 00:40:59.805 --> 00:41:01.045 explain that bit? What do you mean? 1016 00:41:01.045 --> 00:41:02.445 So often it's things like, um, 1017 00:41:03.105 --> 00:41:04.925 say the character is a crocodile, 1018 00:41:05.345 --> 00:41:07.245 and then you'll say to them, oh, what can we do? 1019 00:41:07.245 --> 00:41:09.205 How can we help him hit him, smack him, bite him, 1020 00:41:09.235 --> 00:41:11.365 poke him in the eyes, like, you know what I mean? 1021 00:41:11.435 --> 00:41:13.765 It's, there's a lot of violent stuff. Killing 1022 00:41:14.105 --> 00:41:15.105 My goodness though. That's, 1023 00:41:15.105 --> 00:41:16.245 that's punch. 1024 00:41:16.245 --> 00:41:17.925 And Judy isn't it as well, with a crocodile, 1025 00:41:19.515 --> 00:41:20.645 There's a lot of stories. 1026 00:41:21.795 --> 00:41:24.125 Most of the traditional tales are pretty violent. 1027 00:41:24.625 --> 00:41:27.245 If you look at them, burn them in a pot and yeah. 1028 00:41:27.625 --> 00:41:31.565 So you have to head off with a wood cutters accent. 1029 00:41:31.705 --> 00:41:33.685 So yeah, there's, in stories, 1030 00:41:34.625 --> 00:41:37.515 It, it's really complex with this 1031 00:41:37.515 --> 00:41:40.635 because actually the children love 1032 00:41:40.635 --> 00:41:41.715 the shouting and the screaming. 1033 00:41:41.755 --> 00:41:44.995 I watch them. I mean, I'm, you know, in Swage as one of the, 1034 00:41:45.435 --> 00:41:48.075 I I'm often down there to, when I'm taking my grandchildren 1035 00:41:48.655 --> 00:41:50.675 and, and they're always wanting, they're always wanting 1036 00:41:50.675 --> 00:41:52.155 to go there and have them bonked 1037 00:41:52.155 --> 00:41:53.835 and thrown and, and and down. 1038 00:41:54.175 --> 00:41:55.915 And they're always quite nice afterwards. 1039 00:41:57.065 --> 00:41:59.715 They, they're actually, it's like the violence has gone 1040 00:42:00.055 --> 00:42:02.315 and they're always quite kind to each other. 1041 00:42:02.855 --> 00:42:05.195 And I think good, I'll have a nice time with them now. 1042 00:42:05.195 --> 00:42:06.195 They've seen that 1043 00:42:07.825 --> 00:42:09.795 Time Gone for while 1044 00:42:10.705 --> 00:42:13.435 because the sibling stuff is really bad. Kids are really 1045 00:42:13.435 --> 00:42:14.435 Pushing. That's 1046 00:42:14.435 --> 00:42:16.755 terrible, my brother. I know. Yeah. 1047 00:42:17.575 --> 00:42:20.275 I'm, it's, it's quite deep now if we're trying 1048 00:42:20.415 --> 00:42:22.715 to use puppets, um, I don't know, 1049 00:42:22.915 --> 00:42:24.755 I don't know whether isn't sometimes just a good thing. 1050 00:42:25.185 --> 00:42:27.075 It's done through the, it's done. 1051 00:42:27.555 --> 00:42:29.955 I think it's a good thing through the, the, the metaphor. 1052 00:42:30.695 --> 00:42:34.755 So they're enjoying the naughtiness of it. Mm-hmm. Alright. 1053 00:42:35.435 --> 00:42:36.875 I don't know what the right thing is. 1054 00:42:36.895 --> 00:42:40.365 If, if, if you, if you were using, um, I'm, I'm, I'm a, 1055 00:42:40.405 --> 00:42:41.605 a drama therapist as well. 1056 00:42:41.945 --> 00:42:44.965 And when I have, I obviously don't do it anymore 1057 00:42:44.965 --> 00:42:47.125 because I can't, 'cause it's a long time ago, 1058 00:42:47.305 --> 00:42:49.965 but I did what I was and I was registered by that, um, 1059 00:42:50.305 --> 00:42:51.965 you would allow them that, does that make sense? 1060 00:42:51.965 --> 00:42:54.085 Because it was in a therapeutic environment 1061 00:42:54.085 --> 00:42:55.445 and you had the facilities to do that, 1062 00:42:55.465 --> 00:42:57.285 and you would allow them to explore it in that way. 1063 00:42:57.625 --> 00:42:59.085 We can't do that in schools 1064 00:42:59.155 --> 00:43:02.245 because there's a worry that's going to spill over 1065 00:43:02.245 --> 00:43:03.685 to the playground or that's gonna go back 1066 00:43:03.685 --> 00:43:04.925 to a parent or whatever. 1067 00:43:06.145 --> 00:43:10.045 So in fact, there may be some fantastic research saying 1068 00:43:10.605 --> 00:43:12.405 children need an outlet mm-hmm. 1069 00:43:12.585 --> 00:43:14.165 Of, of mm-hmm. 1070 00:43:14.265 --> 00:43:17.325 Saying the worst things they can say and shouting and blah. 1071 00:43:17.325 --> 00:43:19.245 They, there may be some, some all sorts 1072 00:43:19.245 --> 00:43:20.885 of psychological research on that, I don't know. 1073 00:43:21.865 --> 00:43:23.605 But I do know that teachers are uncomfortable 1074 00:43:23.605 --> 00:43:25.245 because they've got 30 children 1075 00:43:26.265 --> 00:43:28.125 and they're trying to work with Yeah. 1076 00:43:28.265 --> 00:43:32.845 So in mine, we do the, in my puppet scripts, books 1077 00:43:32.845 --> 00:43:35.965 that we have that the, um, uh, 1078 00:43:36.545 --> 00:43:39.725 the puppet will say something that's been happened to him, 1079 00:43:39.795 --> 00:43:42.005 like he's been hit or he's been left out on, 1080 00:43:42.005 --> 00:43:44.445 people are shouting at me, I dunno what to do about it. 1081 00:43:44.705 --> 00:43:46.525 So we do say we, we get 'em 1082 00:43:46.525 --> 00:43:48.285 to think from the other person's point of view. 1083 00:43:48.995 --> 00:43:52.365 What would that feel like to have that ax on his head? 1084 00:43:52.465 --> 00:43:53.765 You know, how would he feel? 1085 00:43:54.185 --> 00:43:55.765 So the only thing 1086 00:43:55.765 --> 00:43:58.645 that you can actually counteract that is empathy. 1087 00:43:58.705 --> 00:44:00.885 The only thing that'll change the world in any 1088 00:44:00.885 --> 00:44:01.965 way is empathy. 1089 00:44:02.665 --> 00:44:06.965 So, um, there may be a space that we can allow children 1090 00:44:07.025 --> 00:44:08.085 to play and say those things, 1091 00:44:08.585 --> 00:44:10.245 but at the same time, you would have 1092 00:44:10.245 --> 00:44:13.285 to be really building up their ability to have empathy. 1093 00:44:13.345 --> 00:44:14.365 And you can, the best way 1094 00:44:14.365 --> 00:44:15.885 of getting empathy is actually puppets. 1095 00:44:16.035 --> 00:44:18.805 Because when they say, I, I bet you can't guess 1096 00:44:18.805 --> 00:44:20.925 what name I was called my papa, 1097 00:44:21.145 --> 00:44:22.565 but you can't get what I was called. 1098 00:44:22.835 --> 00:44:25.245 Yeah, yeah. You were called, you were called Pig 1099 00:44:25.385 --> 00:44:27.885 and Four Eyes and all the things that they're called. 1100 00:44:28.345 --> 00:44:30.125 So they can actually say those things 1101 00:44:30.195 --> 00:44:31.965 that they've been called, called I, yeah. 1102 00:44:32.185 --> 00:44:33.405 And I dunno what to do about it. 1103 00:44:33.405 --> 00:44:36.805 So you get the children to say, coach the puppets, how 1104 00:44:36.805 --> 00:44:38.805 to stand up for themselves, coach the puppets to go 1105 00:44:38.805 --> 00:44:39.805 and tell the teacher, 1106 00:44:40.215 --> 00:44:41.805 coach the puppets to do the right thing. 1107 00:44:42.025 --> 00:44:44.485 But that's a very moral way of helping, 1108 00:44:44.585 --> 00:44:45.845 and that's building empathy. 1109 00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:48.285 Um, but maybe, and, 1110 00:44:48.385 --> 00:44:50.285 and if you watch children play outside, 1111 00:44:50.395 --> 00:44:51.685 it's rough play they want to do, 1112 00:44:51.705 --> 00:44:53.965 and we have to channel that rough play 1113 00:44:54.465 --> 00:44:56.725 so they're not actually thumping each other, 1114 00:44:56.825 --> 00:45:00.805 but they might be working out some special, I don't know, 1115 00:45:00.945 --> 00:45:01.965 we should get noodles. 1116 00:45:01.965 --> 00:45:03.765 So they could TP each other with noodles at one stage. 1117 00:45:03.905 --> 00:45:07.005 They'd have to use them as lances and try 1118 00:45:07.005 --> 00:45:08.445 and get the drama of it going. 1119 00:45:09.155 --> 00:45:12.165 It's a huge, I mean, it's a huge area, Kate 1120 00:45:12.185 --> 00:45:16.085 and I, I I I'm absolutely a hundred percent 1121 00:45:16.195 --> 00:45:17.485 pushing empathy. 1122 00:45:17.985 --> 00:45:19.245 Yes. And, um, 1123 00:45:20.345 --> 00:45:24.135 but sometimes when they're making up their own play 1124 00:45:24.135 --> 00:45:25.135 with their own stories 1125 00:45:25.795 --> 00:45:30.695 and there's some, uh, there's a place maybe to let that out 1126 00:45:30.695 --> 00:45:33.255 because they've seen so much of it going on at home. 1127 00:45:33.875 --> 00:45:36.455 Um, but then there'll be a place to look at later, 1128 00:45:37.035 --> 00:45:39.735 how do we, if we are at the receiving end of that, 1129 00:45:39.835 --> 00:45:40.895 how do we deal with that? 1130 00:45:41.035 --> 00:45:42.975 So it's, it's complex, I think. Yeah. 1131 00:45:43.195 --> 00:45:45.215 No, I think that's a really good answer, which kind 1132 00:45:45.215 --> 00:45:48.415 of is give it space to happen and discuss it. 1133 00:45:48.415 --> 00:45:51.695 Yeah. Bring in the empathy. So yeah, I think that's great. 1134 00:45:51.995 --> 00:45:55.335 So, um, uh, is there anything that I've asked you about 1135 00:45:55.335 --> 00:45:56.415 that you would like to chat about 1136 00:45:56.435 --> 00:45:57.775 or you would like to tell people about? 1137 00:45:58.955 --> 00:46:03.825 Um, hang on in there. Hang on in there. 1138 00:46:04.105 --> 00:46:07.185 Everyone, there's so many unsung heroes. Mm-hmm. 1139 00:46:07.385 --> 00:46:10.105 I just watch and I, I listen to my grandchildren 1140 00:46:10.165 --> 00:46:13.425 and they tell me about how that, how that, uh, 1141 00:46:13.565 --> 00:46:16.505 ta taught them how to do hand exercises so 1142 00:46:16.505 --> 00:46:17.945 that they could hold their things better 1143 00:46:18.005 --> 00:46:19.585 and how that person taught them that. 1144 00:46:19.805 --> 00:46:22.705 And you can see that these are gentle, you know, 1145 00:46:22.705 --> 00:46:24.665 that the children are having mm-hmm. 1146 00:46:24.725 --> 00:46:27.065 So many children are having such rich interactions 1147 00:46:27.255 --> 00:46:30.705 with teachers who are tired with TAs who are tired, um, 1148 00:46:30.725 --> 00:46:33.505 but are doing the very best that they can. 1149 00:46:33.605 --> 00:46:35.025 And they're unsung heroes 1150 00:46:35.025 --> 00:46:36.665 because the next thing they have to jump 1151 00:46:36.665 --> 00:46:38.585 through an osted hoop or they have to jump through this, 1152 00:46:38.585 --> 00:46:39.625 or they have to jump through that. 1153 00:46:40.325 --> 00:46:44.465 Um, I think there should be, you know, what I love is 1154 00:46:44.465 --> 00:46:49.065 that my, my philosophy of life is that if life is being, um, 1155 00:46:49.255 --> 00:46:52.825 kind to you in any way, give back, give back what you can. 1156 00:46:53.125 --> 00:46:55.505 But if life is being unkind to you, receive back, 1157 00:46:55.595 --> 00:46:57.625 allow people to do things for you and, and accept it. 1158 00:46:58.285 --> 00:47:00.225 So in my happy world, 1159 00:47:00.345 --> 00:47:01.785 there would be a staff social committee 1160 00:47:02.565 --> 00:47:05.625 who are volunteers just for half a term, who come up 1161 00:47:05.625 --> 00:47:08.725 with all sorts of fun things that the adults can do. 1162 00:47:09.465 --> 00:47:13.405 So they, they have, you know, DAF things like, I don't know, 1163 00:47:13.405 --> 00:47:15.885 mystery friends or dignity 1164 00:47:15.995 --> 00:47:17.285 days that just get through with dignity. 1165 00:47:17.345 --> 00:47:18.765 All sorts of things that they can do 1166 00:47:18.785 --> 00:47:19.885 to, to boost themselves. 1167 00:47:20.195 --> 00:47:22.885 Because in the end, it's got to be 1168 00:47:23.385 --> 00:47:24.765 how you get on with everybody. 1169 00:47:25.075 --> 00:47:28.125 That, that circle of people standing around you is all 1170 00:47:28.595 --> 00:47:30.645 that stands between you and complete madness. 1171 00:47:30.945 --> 00:47:33.285 So if, if people are moaning too much 1172 00:47:33.705 --> 00:47:36.365 and if people are talking behind each other's backs, um, 1173 00:47:36.785 --> 00:47:38.965 it makes it a very difficult environment to work with. 1174 00:47:39.305 --> 00:47:42.245 If you, if you actually pitch in 1175 00:47:42.985 --> 00:47:44.525 and say, this is, I'm, you know, yes, 1176 00:47:44.525 --> 00:47:46.365 people are annoying me, yes, this happens, 1177 00:47:46.545 --> 00:47:49.325 but actually it's the children we're trying to reach 1178 00:47:49.905 --> 00:47:52.205 and everybody has a light to them. 1179 00:47:52.385 --> 00:47:54.885 It just may not, you may not be drawn to that light. 1180 00:47:54.945 --> 00:47:57.845 And I, I remember a very beautiful head teacher I worked 1181 00:47:57.845 --> 00:48:01.165 with a long time ago, and, um, she had a big school 1182 00:48:01.165 --> 00:48:03.085 for children with, um, severe special needs. 1183 00:48:03.085 --> 00:48:04.125 So she had a lot of adults. 1184 00:48:04.865 --> 00:48:06.725 Um, and she said, 1185 00:48:07.095 --> 00:48:08.965 every adult in my school has a 1186 00:48:08.965 --> 00:48:10.165 different light that comes from them. 1187 00:48:10.225 --> 00:48:12.125 She said, some of them have got the light of generosity, 1188 00:48:12.435 --> 00:48:14.885 some of them have got the light of stickability, some 1189 00:48:14.885 --> 00:48:17.125 of them got the light of kindness, some have got the light 1190 00:48:17.125 --> 00:48:20.845 of, um, being reliable, but they, some of them are funny. 1191 00:48:21.105 --> 00:48:22.285 She said, different light said, 1192 00:48:22.285 --> 00:48:25.245 and together they make a rainbow of light 1193 00:48:25.475 --> 00:48:28.525 through which my children can experience the world. 1194 00:48:29.265 --> 00:48:30.725 So she was so sweet. 1195 00:48:30.825 --> 00:48:33.365 She put up these, she got the kids to paint them 1196 00:48:33.365 --> 00:48:36.165 with their elbows, these great big drippy rainbows 1197 00:48:36.165 --> 00:48:38.965 everywhere, saying, welcome to my happy school. 1198 00:48:39.105 --> 00:48:40.365 And that was all her staff there. 1199 00:48:40.945 --> 00:48:44.605 And then, because life is tragic, um, it happens. 1200 00:48:45.305 --> 00:48:46.525 She was killed in a car crash 1201 00:48:46.525 --> 00:48:47.725 and she was only in her mid thirties. 1202 00:48:48.585 --> 00:48:50.565 Um, and so there was a, there was a big assembly on this, 1203 00:48:51.355 --> 00:48:52.895 and it was really hard sticky assembly 1204 00:48:52.895 --> 00:48:55.775 and it wasn't going at all well, very difficult to explain 1205 00:48:55.775 --> 00:48:57.495 to children when learning dis she's not coming back. 1206 00:48:57.885 --> 00:49:01.455 Sure. Um, and then, um, uh, 1207 00:49:01.975 --> 00:49:03.415 suddenly this lad shouted out. 1208 00:49:03.715 --> 00:49:05.375 So right. So right. 1209 00:49:05.715 --> 00:49:08.135 And he pointed up to the rainbow at the back of the stage 1210 00:49:08.135 --> 00:49:09.615 and he said, she's up there. 1211 00:49:10.595 --> 00:49:12.895 Aw. And that's spiritually profound. 1212 00:49:13.435 --> 00:49:15.415 It is your light that will go on beyond you. 1213 00:49:15.835 --> 00:49:17.455 You can't have all other members 1214 00:49:17.455 --> 00:49:18.815 of staff having the same lights. 1215 00:49:18.875 --> 00:49:21.975 You've got to, the idea of a school is not 1216 00:49:21.975 --> 00:49:23.495 to tolerate individual differences, 1217 00:49:23.555 --> 00:49:25.295 to respect individual differences. 1218 00:49:25.395 --> 00:49:26.935 So everyone's light is different. 1219 00:49:27.275 --> 00:49:29.095 You need, and when you are run down, 1220 00:49:29.395 --> 00:49:31.255 you can't even see a light in somebody else. 1221 00:49:31.715 --> 00:49:33.935 So sometimes we have to thank each other. 1222 00:49:34.045 --> 00:49:36.295 Sometimes we have to thank each other for that light. 1223 00:49:36.455 --> 00:49:37.735 I like to go into a staff room 1224 00:49:37.905 --> 00:49:40.135 where we have a board up called Above and Beyond, 1225 00:49:40.475 --> 00:49:41.855 and anyone puts a little post-it 1226 00:49:41.855 --> 00:49:42.935 saying, thank you having that tea. 1227 00:49:42.935 --> 00:49:44.215 Thank you for doing that, just 1228 00:49:44.555 --> 00:49:46.175 to celebrate the light of that person. 1229 00:49:46.835 --> 00:49:48.095 So it's, it's a big thing. 1230 00:49:48.555 --> 00:49:52.335 But I think, you know, these are basically very good people, 1231 00:49:52.875 --> 00:49:54.375 but we are, they're leaving in droves. 1232 00:49:54.375 --> 00:49:55.535 We can't recruit them. 1233 00:49:56.075 --> 00:49:59.215 Um, it's, it's getting harder and harder out there. 1234 00:49:59.755 --> 00:50:01.935 Um, and until we get back some basic common 1235 00:50:01.935 --> 00:50:04.575 sense, um, we're in trouble. Yes. 1236 00:50:04.965 --> 00:50:06.535 Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. 1237 00:50:06.735 --> 00:50:09.575 'cause I think for a lot of teachers that I know 1238 00:50:10.225 --> 00:50:12.575 often the dynamic with the other staff is one 1239 00:50:12.575 --> 00:50:13.575 of the hardest things at their job. 1240 00:50:14.075 --> 00:50:18.015 Mm. Actually, I think if that could be taken away, 1241 00:50:18.155 --> 00:50:20.055 it could be a real different game for a lot of people. 1242 00:50:20.955 --> 00:50:23.295 Yes. I think if everyone worked on it, I mean, it's going 1243 00:50:23.295 --> 00:50:25.815 to be wherever you go, everyone thinks it's 1244 00:50:25.815 --> 00:50:26.935 life's gonna be better somewhere else. 1245 00:50:27.475 --> 00:50:30.445 It's not just people. And people are complex 1246 00:50:31.185 --> 00:50:34.405 and we, you need systems within which, so people, you know, 1247 00:50:34.405 --> 00:50:36.845 at least in a school, you could have a staff com staff, 1248 00:50:37.065 --> 00:50:38.965 social committee, you could do it. 1249 00:50:38.995 --> 00:50:41.365 Whereas, you know, shops, there's no time. 1250 00:50:41.365 --> 00:50:43.325 They're in and out on shifts and still annoying each other. 1251 00:50:43.465 --> 00:50:46.685 So there is possibility within schools, 1252 00:50:46.785 --> 00:50:48.285 and I know lots of really good schools 1253 00:50:48.305 --> 00:50:50.365 and my, I, in my happy world, I would love to, 1254 00:50:50.455 --> 00:50:52.285 there are schools, I, I have a particular lovely 1255 00:50:52.285 --> 00:50:53.405 school called Water Cliff Meadow. 1256 00:50:53.745 --> 00:50:55.525 Mm-hmm. Primary in Sheffield. 1257 00:50:55.665 --> 00:50:58.325 Now anyone can go on their home to their home thing 1258 00:50:58.345 --> 00:51:02.045 and they'll see a little video, um, of um, what they do in 1259 00:51:02.045 --> 00:51:03.125 that school to make it golden. 1260 00:51:03.475 --> 00:51:05.685 It's a golden school. So they'll, they'll do that. 1261 00:51:05.905 --> 00:51:10.455 But I love it when I can send broken people, tired people 1262 00:51:10.515 --> 00:51:12.895 to a good school, which is in, you know, 1263 00:51:12.895 --> 00:51:16.215 Sheffield was in the, the highest top area 1264 00:51:16.215 --> 00:51:17.655 of deprivation at one stage. 1265 00:51:17.675 --> 00:51:19.135 And it still is huge things. 1266 00:51:19.595 --> 00:51:22.095 But if they go and they can see, hey, this is the kids, 1267 00:51:22.115 --> 00:51:24.015 you know, 600 kids here all getting on, 1268 00:51:24.275 --> 00:51:25.495 and the staff all love each other. 1269 00:51:26.175 --> 00:51:27.135 Everyone's talking respectfully. 1270 00:51:27.135 --> 00:51:28.535 Parents are treated hugely bad. 1271 00:51:28.635 --> 00:51:30.215 If they can do it, anyone can do it. 1272 00:51:30.675 --> 00:51:34.325 But it's not piecemeal people doing little bits of things. 1273 00:51:34.395 --> 00:51:36.845 It's the whole, it's the whole ecosystem model. 1274 00:51:37.105 --> 00:51:39.205 So I would say to people, go and look at this. 1275 00:51:39.785 --> 00:51:40.925 Go and look at what they're doing. 1276 00:51:41.665 --> 00:51:44.605 Um, think about the whole, but it's taken years 1277 00:51:44.665 --> 00:51:46.845 and it's taken years of, of, um, 1278 00:51:47.255 --> 00:51:50.245 three words would change a school, it, and they are plan. 1279 00:51:50.625 --> 00:51:55.285 Mm-hmm. And review if those three words for every bit 1280 00:51:55.285 --> 00:51:56.645 of thing, every new thing you were taking in. 1281 00:51:57.065 --> 00:51:58.725 And the minute you review it 1282 00:51:59.025 --> 00:52:00.645 and it says, yes, we're doing it, 1283 00:52:01.025 --> 00:52:03.205 put it on an achievement board, celebrate it, 1284 00:52:03.665 --> 00:52:05.165 and keep looking at that achievement board 1285 00:52:05.165 --> 00:52:06.685 because we take our eyes off it, it's gone. 1286 00:52:06.685 --> 00:52:07.725 Aw away. Gone away again. 1287 00:52:07.945 --> 00:52:08.925 And you've gotta keep looking after 1288 00:52:08.925 --> 00:52:09.765 it and say, yeah, we're doing it. 1289 00:52:09.815 --> 00:52:11.165 We're doing it. Yeah. 1290 00:52:11.405 --> 00:52:13.125 I say, look, you know, I can come in 1291 00:52:13.125 --> 00:52:15.165 and go woo and leave you high. 1292 00:52:15.185 --> 00:52:17.765 And then I go out, um, and you are, you are there. 1293 00:52:17.865 --> 00:52:20.645 So without these systems put into place to maintain 1294 00:52:21.195 --> 00:52:23.005 some sort of equilibrium and vibrancy 1295 00:52:23.005 --> 00:52:25.445 and personal care plans, it's very hard. 1296 00:52:25.865 --> 00:52:28.845 You, you need that. So in the way you earn the right 1297 00:52:28.845 --> 00:52:32.445 to get extra ideas in if the, uh, 1298 00:52:32.555 --> 00:52:34.245 what you are running is a good ship. 1299 00:52:34.985 --> 00:52:37.805 So get the good chip, get, get yourselves right first 1300 00:52:38.025 --> 00:52:41.165 and then, then you've got energy to take on your ideas, 1301 00:52:41.265 --> 00:52:42.485 my ideas, other people's ideas. 1302 00:52:42.625 --> 00:52:45.165 But, um, you do need that kindness to each other. 1303 00:52:45.355 --> 00:52:47.845 It's just kindness. Yeah. It'll always be just kindness. 1304 00:52:48.005 --> 00:52:49.765 I think. I loved it. When was it? 1305 00:52:49.765 --> 00:52:54.005 Was it, um, uh, not who's 1306 00:52:54.705 --> 00:52:55.885 God Dai Lama. 1307 00:52:56.505 --> 00:52:58.765 Um, and um, when he was just asked, 1308 00:52:58.865 --> 00:53:00.005 you know, what is your religion? 1309 00:53:00.425 --> 00:53:04.165 And he said, kindness. And it was just like, wow. Yeah. 1310 00:53:04.185 --> 00:53:07.045 That's it. Kindness. And it's kindness yourself. 1311 00:53:07.145 --> 00:53:09.605 That's really important because don't, you know, you, 1312 00:53:09.605 --> 00:53:10.925 you've got other people's voices in your head. 1313 00:53:10.925 --> 00:53:13.845 Your mom's voice will teacher's voice just be, 1314 00:53:13.915 --> 00:53:15.565 just say, I'm doing the best I can. 1315 00:53:15.985 --> 00:53:18.205 I'm gonna be kind. Yeah. 1316 00:53:18.355 --> 00:53:19.365 Yeah. I think that's good. 1317 00:53:19.645 --> 00:53:21.645 I was gonna say, um, what's the final thought 1318 00:53:21.645 --> 00:53:22.765 that you'd like to leave people in? 1319 00:53:22.765 --> 00:53:24.005 But that's probably quite a good one, Jenny. 1320 00:53:24.005 --> 00:53:26.325 That is the thought. Yeah. I think that that is the thought. 1321 00:53:26.325 --> 00:53:27.685 Just be kind to yourself. Yeah. 1322 00:53:27.685 --> 00:53:28.845 That's, that's been brilliant, Jenny. 1323 00:53:28.845 --> 00:53:30.045 That's been just wonderful. 1324 00:53:30.365 --> 00:53:32.085 I think that's the message to get to people. 1325 00:53:32.365 --> 00:53:34.765 'cause people are so stressed and so overworked 1326 00:53:34.865 --> 00:53:36.965 and I think it's just taking a breath 1327 00:53:36.965 --> 00:53:38.645 and saying like, what, come on. 1328 00:53:38.645 --> 00:53:40.725 What, what's going on here? Yeah.